Who Are You Talking To John?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is false, as others have pointed out. Rebates are great, but not everyone has access to them and even in states that allow them, the threshold for getting one varies. More importantly, rebates only reward volume betting, they don't reward winning, which is what the industry should be focusing on - returning more of the pools to winning ticket holders, because that's better in the long term for players of all bankroll sizes.

The quote is offensive, but it's just the latest in a long line of offensive rhetoric about horseplayers by the people in charge of the sport. The notion of sophisticated horseplayers who treat the game with the seriousness of any other investment is completely lost on most of the decision-makers in horse racing. Yet these are the people who are supposed to be looking out for our game when dealing with regressive government officials. It makes me appreciate all the more what NYRA has done in the past year, making an effort to listen to all of its customers and rolling out tangible improvements like the 15% Pick 5 as a result.

It's going to take a lot more than that to reform things though, and as long as people like Walsh are making business decisions based on what a few jadrools in the grandstand say, the battle remains a steeply uphill one.

Joey, anyone betting serious money is getting a rebate. It's not a discussion.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Joey, anyone betting serious money is getting a rebate. It's not a discussion.

K. I don't know how you can say that, but it wasn't the point of my post, so I'll move on.

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...-sparks-handle

Crist piece today on this very issue as it relates to Belmont Pick 5.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

K. I don't know how you can say that, but it wasn't the point of my post, so I'll move on.

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...-sparks-handle

Crist piece today on this very issue as it relates to Belmont Pick 5.

I say it because it's true....and you stated the opposite.

I'm a horseplayer, I am all for lower takeouts, but it's not a simple discussion, just as Steve suggests. Regardless, don't fall under the illusion that serious players aren't getting rebates. They are.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I say it because it's true....and you stated the opposite.

I'm a horseplayer, I am all for lower takeouts, but it's not a simple discussion, just as Steve suggests. Regardless, don't fall under the illusion that serious players aren't getting rebates. They are.

It's dependent on an arbitrary definition of "serious player" and jurisdictional factors should be considered when making that kind of blanket statement. But OK.

[cmorioles]

From the Crist article:

"First, in most cases track operators are powerless to set takeout rates, their hands tied by government regulators and budget officials who are unwilling to experiment with accepting short-term revenue losses in exchange for long-term growth."

Their hands never seem tied when it comes to getting increases.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

From the Crist article:

"First, in most cases track operators are powerless to set takeout rates, their hands tied by government regulators and budget officials who are unwilling to experiment with accepting short-term revenue losses in exchange for long-term growth."

Their hands never seem tied when it comes to getting increases.

Exactly.

I can't speak for other states, but I'm very dubious about that in Pennsylvania.

When I first went to the powers that be who reside in the building at PID... that was always the crutch they'd reply with. The State. Politics. Not entirely in our control. Blah, blah, blah.

Suddenly, a column appears in the newspaper arguing for takeout reductions and explaining how handicapping and betting on horses isn't something "mindless, like pushing a button or pulling a lever on a slot machine"

Suddenly, they're willing to jump through all of these supposed hoops with politicians.

PID has had two sharp takeout reductions. Perhaps coincidentally, but both came right after slots players were shamed in the front page of the Sports section in articles about takeout.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It's dependent on an arbitrary definition of "serious player" and jurisdictional factors should be considered when making that kind of blanket statement. But OK.

If you wanted to sign-up today with an outlet that provides rebates, you could, regardless of how much you play.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you wanted to sign-up today with an outlet that provides rebates, you could, regardless of how much you play.

Probably, but it all seems so dirty. Why the secrecy and the jumping through hoops just be able to bet at a reasonable price? That gets pretty old, and it smells bad too. It does nothing to help the troubled reputation of horse racing.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you wanted to sign-up today with an outlet that provides rebates, you could, regardless of how much you play.

This is absolutely false. I know of three NJ residents that legally can not get an acct threw a respectable onshore shop. Its no different for IL residents

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Scav

This is absolutely false. I know of three NJ residents that legally can not get an acct threw a respectable onshore shop.

Yup, when the kids are in bed I will correct the rampant misinformation in this thread.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Scav

This is absolutely false. I know of three NJ residents that legally can not get an acct threw a respectable onshore shop. Its no different for IL residents

Do we count the TVG rebates?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Scav

This is absolutely false. I know of three NJ residents that legally can not get an acct threw a respectable onshore shop. Its no different for IL residents

As for certain states... well yeah, Arizona, Texas... there are a bunch of states who can't bet period, much less with a rebate shop. I'm speaking in general terms. The fact folks in NJ can't bet is an issue that comes before takeout, because the takeout doesn't matter on a bet you can't or will never make.