NYRA Fanchise Recommendation

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Do you really think the VLTs is the cure for the financial problems the NYRA has? There is much more to the puzzle than the VLT issue. Certainly there are politcal issues taking place. But, I have asked this question 100x--why and how does the NYRA continue to lose money? If they cannot operate within their financial means now, what makes you think they will be able to operate within the financial means once VLTs are in place? Until the NYRA changes their business model they are going to continue to have financial problems with or without VLTs.

Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge.
These politicos have hurt the trainers, owners, municipalities, taxpayers, everyone.
WHy? Because every politician had a special interest group tossing money at them or rewards when they left office if they could help swing the new contract there way.
Problem was that even that became gridlocked, different politicians and factions trying to get the franchise to different folks. What a bunch of whores.
Don't think for two seconds any of these guys care about who actually gets the place or how they run it, they only want a care package of some sort sent to them "for their help and support".
In reality, Spitzer may help more than he can hurt NYRA. Two things Spitzer puts above everything else, control and power. He feasts on them.
If you just give away the franchise to a private group he loses the large majority of his control and power over their actions. I just can't see him doing that and he doesn't need a care package. Hes now Governor after being Attorney General and has much larger political ambitions. Hes all set. He can seek higher office, stay Governor for years if he chooses(very hard to unseat a dem incumbent in NYS) or leave the political life and become a mega lobbyist some day.
His biggest issues will be revenue, control, and power when it comes to awarding the Franchise. Guess who that favors?

Your first couple of sentences says it all in your statement - "Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge." This is where the problem lies. You cannot bump up purses if you are losing money. The NYRA still has an under funded pension and they owe Suffolk County back taxes (unless these were paid up to date since the last time I read an article). Until the NYRA is able to operate under the financial model with or without VLTs then they are never going to be as great as they could be. I am all for increase in purses, but you have to make sure your operating costs are taken care of first.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Your first couple of sentences says it all in your statement - "Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge." This is where the problem lies. You cannot bump up purses if you are losing money. The NYRA still has an under funded pension and they owe Suffolk County back taxes (unless these were paid up to date since the last time I read an article). Until the NYRA is able to operate under the financial model with or without VLTs then they are never going to be as great as they could be. I am all for increase in purses, but you have to make sure your operating costs are taken care of first.

Why would they owe Suffolk County taxes?
They operate nothing in Suffolk.

Originally Posted by philcski

Why would they owe Suffolk County taxes?
They operate nothing in Suffolk.

You can't go confusing this guy with facts Phil. You are talking about a guy who just cited the only horse who won outside all day long on BC Day(the horse of the year) as proof that you could "win without being inside that day".
Thats the kind of mentality you are dealing with here.

Originally Posted by oracle80

You can't go confusing this guy with facts Phil. You are talking about a guy who just cited the only horse who won outside all day long on BC Day(the horse of the year) as proof that you could "win without being inside that day".
Thats the kind of mentality you are dealing with here.

I think you mean JPOPS and not me referring to the only horse who won from the outside all day. I didnt say anything about BC day and where horses came from. And I am sorry, I meant Nassau County. I have no clue how I got Suffolk. Sorry about that.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Your first couple of sentences says it all in your statement - "Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge." This is where the problem lies. You cannot bump up purses if you are losing money. The NYRA still has an under funded pension and they owe Suffolk County back taxes (unless these were paid up to date since the last time I read an article). Until the NYRA is able to operate under the financial model with or without VLTs then they are never going to be as great as they could be. I am all for increase in purses, but you have to make sure your operating costs are taken care of first.

I could be wrong, however, I think VLT revenue -- AND changes in legislation, tax laws, etc. -- would allow NYRA to operate more efficiently and effectively. Being deficit funded and operating in the red costs more than operating at healthy, normal, in the black, etc. levels.

I think people tend to collapse financial standing and health with blame and competence. Often that works, but not always.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

I could be wrong, however, I think VLT revenue -- AND changes in legislation, tax laws, etc. -- would allow NYRA to operate more efficiently and effectively. Being deficit funded and operating in the red costs more than operating at healthy, normal, in the black, etc. levels.

I think people tend to collapse financial standing and health with blame and competence. Often that works, but not always.

Eric

I think you are right. But when you try to operate with more money then you bring in then you need to make changes in operating costs. To my knowledge, this has never been done. They have not funded their pension and they pay their taxes late. To me it is a bad business model that needs some fixing. I have yet to see anyone come up with a new business model.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think you are right. But when you try to operate with more money then you bring in then you need to make changes in operating costs. To my knowledge, this has never been done. They have not funded their pension and they pay their taxes late. To me it is a bad business model that needs some fixing. I have yet to see anyone come up with a new business model.

While I agree with you conceptually, we are all examing this from a great distance. NYRA has not been able to operate with the current amount of revenue collected. Who is to say that Jack Welch or anyone else for that matter could do any better, worse, different, etc? That is not about skills, or anything of the like. And, it might not be about cutting operating costs. Certain costs are fixed and unavoidable. Many are not of course and sure there should have been changes. There were some but yes, probably not enough. I just don't think that would have solved the problem. The problem was bigger -- outside, external elements.

It would be futile to debate business accumen and management styles on this of course. I think the business model is a more global issue, not just about how NYRA is run.

Eric

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by ELA

While I agree with you conceptually, we are all examing this from a great distance. NYRA has not been able to operate with the current amount of revenue collected. Who is to say that Jack Welch or anyone else for that matter could do any better, worse, different, etc? That is not about skills, or anything of the like. And, it might not be about cutting operating costs. Certain costs are fixed and unavoidable. Many are not of course and sure there should have been changes. There were some but yes, probably not enough. I just don't think that would have solved the problem. The problem was bigger -- outside, external elements.

It would be futile to debate business accumen and management styles on this of course. I think the business model is a more global issue, not just about how NYRA is run.

Eric

Eric,
You've given lots of insight. Thanks.
IMHO there are plenty of "games" being played. This is to the detriment of NY racing.
Slots are a draw, but not the total answer. Last year, at Finger Lakes where one of mine runs, there were many letters written and signed by myself and many others, where the hope was to increase purses and put in a turf course with the money generated by the slots. You see how that went down.
Too many fingers are grabbing that pie.
Games, games, and more games do not serve the bettors, horsemen, or frankly, the people of NY. I really hope this nonsense ends soon.
DTS

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Eric,
You've given lots of insight. Thanks.
IMHO there are plenty of "games" being played. This is to the detriment of NY racing.
Slots are a draw, but not the total answer. Last year, at Finger Lakes where one of mine runs, there were many letters written and signed by myself and many others, where the hope was to increase purses and put in a turf course with the money generated by the slots. You see how that went down.
Too many fingers are grabbing that pie.
Games, games, and more games do not serve the bettors, horsemen, or frankly, the people of NY. I really hope this nonsense ends soon.
DTS

I don't see the Finger Lakes situation the same way others do. Finger Lakes is owned by Delaware North -- one of the largest privately held corporations in the world. When there was money "available" to be put back into the facility, very simply, there was an ROI/ROR decision to make. It wasn't a case of too many fingers -- it was a case of for-profit management looking to spend money where they made it and where they are certain they will get a ROI/ROR. That can be a very common problem with VLT's.

Track management/owners must be obligated and must commit to putting money back into the racing side of the facility, the backstretch, etc. and of course purses. We cannot let track management/owners pass the buck -- or in this case the bill -- back to horsemen, the horsemens associations and others by saying those improvements should be paid for out of their end (the horsemen's end). Then the track management/owners are not in the racing game any longer. They are truly casino operators.

Like I said, the answer, IMHO, is not just and exclusively in VLT's. It is more global than that. It is about VLT's, alternative revenue sources, and all of the other things I mentioned.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

While I agree with you conceptually, we are all examing this from a great distance. NYRA has not been able to operate with the current amount of revenue collected. Who is to say that Jack Welch or anyone else for that matter could do any better, worse, different, etc? That is not about skills, or anything of the like. And, it might not be about cutting operating costs. Certain costs are fixed and unavoidable. Many are not of course and sure there should have been changes. There were some but yes, probably not enough. I just don't think that would have solved the problem. The problem was bigger -- outside, external elements.

It would be futile to debate business accumen and management styles on this of course. I think the business model is a more global issue, not just about how NYRA is run.

Eric

I think the NYRA business model would make a great case study. You have everything to deal with...Unions, Gov't, Non-Profit status. But businesses have got to be able to adapt and be flexible. I dont think the NYRA has done that--may or maynot be their fault. But, I don't see them trying to change anything. It is status quo. I like the NYRA and hope they get everything cleared up.