welfare vs wages

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, it seems many have forgotten what henry ford always thought and worked by, pay your employees enough that they can afford to buy the product they're making.
thing is, people like to look down their noses at people in fast food, or other service industries...but-we use those places, we need those places. that's like sneering at the garbage collector. hello, if it weren't for him, we'd be toting our own stinky stuff to the dump.

Fast food workers don't make enough to buy the hamburgers and fries they're making?

And take a guess what a City of Chicago garbage collector takes home?

Actually it's a Streets and Sanitation worker and that means juicy pension in addition to salary.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Fast food workers don't make enough to buy the hamburgers and fries they're making?

And take a guess what a City of Chicago garbage collector takes home?

Actually it's a Streets and Sanitation worker and that means juicy pension in addition to salary.

because fast food workers are the only ones who make min. wage? and if they wish to live on their own, no, they can't afford to buy food out.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because fast food workers are the only ones who make min. wage? .

You used fast food workers as the example.

The skill-set needed to punch a picture of a hamburger and fries and then communicate it to the kitchen must be tough. Look at how many times it results in a mistaken order. Surely they should be paid as much as those who provided said skill-set, public school teachers.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You used fast food workers as the example.

The skill-set needed to punch a picture of a hamburger and fries and then communicate it to the kitchen must be tough. Look at how many times it results in a mistaken order. Surely they should be paid as much as those who provided said skill-set, public school teachers.

no:


'yeah, it seems many have forgotten what henry ford always thought and worked by, pay your employees enough that they can afford to buy the product they're making.' last time i checked, henry ford had owned a car maker

and then i said : 'thing is, people like to look down their noses at people in fast food, or other service industries...'

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no:


'yeah, it seems many have forgotten what henry ford always thought and worked by, pay your employees enough that they can afford to buy the product they're making.' last time i checked, henry ford had owned a car maker

and then i said : 'thing is, people like to look down their noses at people in fast food, or other service industries...'

Yes Henry Ford owned a car maker and his employees made cars. Fast food workers make hamburgers and fries and it's hard for me to believe, using your Henry Ford model, they can't afford the product they make.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no:


'yeah, it seems many have forgotten what henry ford always thought and worked by, pay your employees enough that they can afford to buy the product they're making.' last time i checked, henry ford had owned a car maker

and then i said : 'thing is, people like to look down their noses at people in fast food, or other service industries...'

From "Nickeled and Dimed":

“When someone works for less pay than she can live on — when, for example, she goes hungry so that you can eat more cheaply and conveniently — then she has made a great sacrifice for you, she has made you a gift of some part of her abilities, her health, and her life. The 'working poor,' as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropists of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for; they live in substandard housing so that other homes will be shiny and perfect; they endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the working poor is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor, to everyone else.”

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Fast food workers don't make enough to buy the hamburgers and fries they're making?

And take a guess what a City of Chicago garbage collector takes home?

Actually it's a Streets and Sanitation worker and that means juicy pension in addition to salary.

City sanitation worker salaries top out in the mid 40's.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/bizfin...features/4086/

http://www.salaryexpert.com/index.cf...sitionid=78876

Overtime will take them, on average, into the mid 60s. Hardly a rich person's salary. Especially living in a city.

[GenuineRisk]

Oh, and a follow-up on the welfare vs work- Lori, I know you read Slate as much as I do, so I imagine you've already seen this, but I thought it was interesting follow-up:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_...wpisrc=flyouts

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Overtime will take them, on average, into the mid 60s. Hardly a rich person's salary. Especially living in a city.

Add in covered healthcare and 70% of average salary as a pension and we're a far cry from minimum wage.

That's why even Rahmbo is looking to privatize garbage collection.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Add in covered healthcare and 70% of average salary as a pension and we're a far cry from minimum wage.

That's why even Rahmbo is looking to privatize garbage collection.

So you're saying garbage collectors deserve to live in poverty?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

So you're saying garbage collectors deserve to live in poverty?

No I'm not saying that. Private collectors are paid comparable wages to public workers. It's all in the pension.

And no garbage collectors should not earn a rich-person's salary unless there's a MG (Masters' of Garbage) program at Wharton I'm not familiar with.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

No I'm not saying that. Private collectors are paid comparable wages to public workers. It's all in the pension.

And no garbage collectors should not earn a rich-person's salary unless there's a MG (Masters' of Garbage) program at Wharton I'm not familiar with.

So a 60K salary is "rich" to you? Because 44K plus health care adds up to a mid-60s salary (estimate a third more for health care and Social Security costs- much of which the employing company gets to deduct).

Seventy percent pension would mean a collector would be living on about $30-35K a year in retirement. You consider this overly lavish?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

So a 60K salary is "rich" to you? Because 44K plus health care adds up to a mid-60s salary (estimate a third more for health care and Social Security costs- much of which the employing company gets to deduct).

Seventy percent pension would mean a collector would be living on about $30-35K a year in retirement. You consider this overly lavish?

60K is not rich and I think is fair pay, it's also a far cry from minimum wage and with healthcare added I would definitely consider it middle class.

When the $30-$35K comes from the taxpayer, then yes I consider it lavish. Drawing from the employee's 401K, I consider livable with Medicare and SS added. I also call it self-reliant and not taxpayer subsidized.

Illinois and many other states don't have a problem with payroll it's pensions that have been neglected/pilfered and mismanaged at no fault of the taxpayer yet guess who's on the line?