The Great Derby Paradox

[Calzone Lord]

The only people my age who like to go to the track and bet horses are people who care about sports.

They're usually deeply into fantasy football, they're always general sports fans, and they always have a job, and most of them dislike Poker. The rest are poker players who get bored with poker.

Most of them that show up a few times a week at the track redboard stories of success in some fantasy site called 'Fan Duel' more than they ever redboard on tickets they've cashed the last few days betting horses.

My girlfriend just hasn't gotten into racing at all. She enjoyed Saratoga, and even Mountaineer, and likes hanging out with me at the track here for live racing.

She has no interest in betting or handicapping.

My brother Dave is a year younger than me, same parents growing up (both trained thoroughbreds for fun) same grandfathers growing up (both bet horses for fun) -- he doesn't care about general sports and doesn't care about horse racing. When he goes to the track a few times a year, it's to drink beer and screw around.

The focus needs to be on attracting people like the ones I see, who gamely show up and try to figure out the game and take a beating.

If you're marketing to people my age who aren't into fantasy sports or poker, you're wasting your time and money. You're going after people like my girlfriend and my brothers.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The only people my age who like to go to the track and bet horses are people who care about sports.

They're usually deeply into fantasy football, they're always general sports fans, and they always have a job, and most of them dislike Poker. The rest are poker players who get bored with poker.

Most of them that show up a few times a week at the track redboard stories of success in some fantasy site called 'Fan Duel' more than they ever redboard on tickets they've cashed the last few days betting horses.
I
My girlfriend just hasn't gotten into racing at all. She enjoyed Saratoga, and even Mountaineer, and likes hanging out with me at the track here for live racing.

She has no interest in betting or handicapping.






My brother Dave is a year younger than me, same parents growing up (both trained thoroughbreds for fun) same grandfathers growing up (both bet horses for fun) -- he doesn't care about general sports and doesn't care about horse racing. When he goes to the track a few times a year, it's to drink beer and screw around.

The focus needs to be on attracting people like the ones I see, who gamely show up and try to figure out the game and take a beating.

If you're marketing to people my age who aren't into fantasy sports or poker, you're wasting your time and money. You're going after people like my girlfriend and my brothers.

I agree with Doug that they need to market to other sports fans from ages 18 and up. I have been at the Derby the last few years and the people you meet,that are actually gambling, are all fans of other sports. Although fantasy sports never came up I'm sure many where involved in them. Most people you talk to are eager to learn more about how to wager. Over the course of the weekend people sitting or standing around me heard me discussing what we were wagering and later asked me questions. Most had no idea about how to play multi race tickets, what a Beyer or Tomlinson number etc... Everyone was eager to learn and to wager something more than win/place. I recommended Rich Eng's book to a couple of them while telling them not to be insulted by the title. People who like other sports and play fantasy football are definetly the correct target market. You need to educate them so they get the intrigue of the sport and so they can have some success.

[Calzone Lord]

I'm not sure why fantasy sports and poker have by far the best crossover to horse racing for people in their late 20's and early 30's.

Fantasy sports (and Poker to a lesser extent) is information driven, both require some basic skill in probabilities, and both are betting oriented games.

The people who play these games are generally much gamer than the ones who don't.

Anytime you bet horses, you're going to have some terrible days and you'll catch cold streaks ... I've seen these young guys lose $800 to a thousand dollars in a day betting horses, and they'll come back...even though they know their handicapping skills aren't good enough and their chances of winning long term are very low.

Those casual once or twice a year fan isn't going to bet nearly as much, and they won't bounce back from the beatings as well.

[Payson Dave]

Seems to me that a vast majority of racing fans are into the game because of the gambling aspect. Even relatively casual fans go to gamble as much as to party. I don't think very many people go to a racetrack or simulcast facility to see celebrities. On the big racing days there are obviously many people who attend/tune in for the social/party atmosphere. Most casual fans watching the network coverage on the big days don't have online accounts ...they may have dropped a buck in an office pool or are using the event as an opportunity to socialize/party. They are not likely to become serious fans of the game unless they have a desire to gamble. The lure of potentially making money along with the challenge of picking winners is what seems to keep the majority of actual race fans coming back. Educating the the casual fan and marketing the potential money making aspect along with the handicapping challenge aspect seems the most likely way to turn a novice/casual fan into more than just a big day fan.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I agree with Doug that they need to market to other sports fans from ages 18 and up. I have been at the Derby the last few years and the people you meet,that are actually gambling, are all fans of other sports. Although fantasy sports never came up I'm sure many where involved in them. Most people you talk to are eager to learn more about how to wager. Over the course of the weekend people sitting or standing around me heard me discussing what we were wagering and later asked me questions. Most had no idea about how to play multi race tickets, what a Beyer or Tomlinson number etc... Everyone was eager to learn and to wager something more than win/place. I recommended Rich Eng's book to a couple of them while telling them not to be insulted by the title. People who like other sports and play fantasy football are definetly the correct target market. You need to educate them so they get the intrigue of the sport and so they can have some success.

I hate sports and have never gambled on anything else in my life.

Racing is an interesting puzzle and requires a lot of research that can potentially pay off if you're right. You don't only have to be a sports fan to appreciate that.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I hate sports and have never gambled on anything else in my life.

Racing is an interesting puzzle and requires a lot of research that can potentially pay off if you're right. You don't only have to be a sports fan to appreciate that.

I don't think I said that people other than sports fans could not become interested in horse racing. When you are spending marketing dollars you are trying to get the most potential new customers for your money invested. I think luring people from casino gambling, fantasy or other sports betting is probably the easiest conversion.

[art vanderlay]

I can't comment on NBC TV coverage because I was freezing in my barely undercover seats at Churchill. But I believe they missed out on the biggest entertainment story, people squatting in someone elses seats and the fights that nearly erupted trying to evict said trespassers.