NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I say it doesn't help the sport to repeatedly read comments about drugs in horse racing that are shallow, superficial and unbiased by empirical reality.

Duck. So you do disgree with the report. And, by the way, that wasn't "media" written.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Duck. So you do disgree with the report. And, by the way, that wasn't "media" written.

Nope. I didn't say that. What I have already said to you, posts ago, was, "I did not question the report."

Continue talking to the empty chair containing the imaginary Riot saying imaginary things ... I'll just watch you continue to prove my point (and Chucks point too) - thanks. Have a great day.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope. I didn't say that. What I have already said to you, posts ago, was, "I did not question the report."

Continue talking to the empty chair containing the imaginary Riot saying imaginary things ... I'll just watch you continue to prove my point (and Chucks point too) - thanks. Have a great day.

Lets keep this simple. What are your thoughts on using clenbuterol ever day?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Lets keep this simple. What are your thoughts on using clenbuterol ever day?

I see no point in engaging you, as you've proven beyond a doubt in multiple Derby Trail discussions, including this one, that you have zero ability or desire to discuss facts about any subject for which you have already formed an inviolate opinion - but thanks anyway

Why you would even want the opinion of one who you dismiss as a "supposed vet" is beyond me. Vets, horse trainers - you won't be fooled by those folks on matters of drug use or horse training, will ya?

Have that nice day.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I see no point in engaging you, as you've proven beyond a doubt in multiple Derby Trail discussions, including this one, that you have zero ability or desire to discuss facts about any subject for which you have already formed an inviolate opinion - but thanks anyway

Why you would even want the opinion of one who you dismiss as a "supposed vet" is beyond me. Vets, horse trainers - you won't be fooled by those folks on matters of drug use or horse training, will ya?

Have that nice day.

Spin, spin, spin. When backed into a corner, RUN! Nice strategy.

[Kasept]

Dr. Palmer on ATR for all of Hour 2 today...

[Riot]

I did attend the Gluck conference on furosemide today. Very nice. Toxicologists, drug researchers, equine researchers, clinical vets from sport horse and racing practices, and the inevitable group of exhausted pHD students.

Unfortunately, like the Disease Diagnostic Center conferences, this one was not filmed to put on the internet. Much was detailed toxicology, pharmacology, research data review anyway.

Was a review of reams of good scientific literature and documented TB/harness racing experience regarding EIPH from the 1960's on (with a glance to the origins of documented EIPH, before it was called EIPH), especially the good research involving thousands of race horses in multiple jurisdictions, and the NYRA track information available from before and after the lasix permission ruling.

Causes of EIPH, what does and does not make it worse, what is currently accepted and what is disproven. The proven measurable incidence of occurrence in exercising horses of all disciplines.

Mostly the last half hour was a review of what is considered proven and definitive in the scientific literature regarding the effects and efficacy of lasix in the race horse, regarding attenuating EIPH. In other words, what is pretty indisputably considered true.

Also discussed was disproven old wives tales regarding lasix effect on dilution of urine, why performance is increased and how much (measurable) ability to mask drugs, why the holding period is 4 hours, why performance improves in the horse and by how much, why the dose is what it is in the racehorse, etc (background stuff)

Some interesting recent stuff about the best efficacy of lasix for initial and chronic use (at what distances) - there is a distinct variance of shown efficacy regarding horse performance between sprint (most), middle distance, and distance (least). Interesting couple pieces of info that would help trainers starting young horses.

And yes - the attempt to eliminate lasix by a few in American racing was discussed in the Q & A following. The science is undeniably and unquestionably heavily on the other side of that issue at this point. Nobody present thought forbidding the use of furosemide in the race horse would be remotely good for the health and welfare of the horse, or the breed. And the current body of science clearly shows why.

Question on if toxicologists/pharmacologists were working on any other drugs to attenuate EIPH, answer: not currently, as furosemide safe and efficacious at this point. Discussion of use of blood pressure alteration via pharmacology, but too many untoward side effects and less efficacy this point.