The Dodgers/Red Sox Trade

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Lester is a very good young left handed pitcher having a rare off year. He is also signed to a favorable contract. If they wanted to trade him every team in the league would be interested.

Pedroia went to a miserable university but other than that is one of the 2 or 3 best 2nd basemen in baseball and is signed to a very favorable contract. If they wanted to trade him almost every team in baseball would be interested.

And easy on the bald guys...

Lester is a solid number 2 or 3 pitcher and yes he could pitch on any rotation in the league. The thing is, they made plans for him as a number 1 guy and he simply hasnt been to this point.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Lester is a solid number 2 or 3 pitcher and yes he could pitch on any rotation in the league. The thing is, they made plans for him as a number 1 guy and he simply hasnt been to this point.

Really? 2008-2011 he was one of the best 15 starters in baseball (probably top 10). Being that there are 30 teams that would make him not only a number 1 starter but one of the top number 1 starters. Compare his numbers to Cole Hamels who just got $165 million dollar contract. Lester is having a BAD year, no doubt. His he is allowing way more hits, HR's and BB's than he ever has and is striking out fewer which is a disturbing trend. However a young pitcher with an established track record that suddenly has a bad year is almost always a physical issue that they may or may not reveal.

Your statement is absolutely not correct. He was unquestionably a number 1 starter from the time he became a rotation regular in 2008 and this year he is unquestionably barely a number 5 starter based on his production or lack of it.

[Alabama Stakes]

Cole Hamels....isn't he the guy who beat the **** out of his wife in the middle of faneuil hall ? Lester was the ring leader of the beer and chicken crowd during the game and wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. pitching in fenway helps him too.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Cole Hamels....isn't he the guy who beat the **** out of his wife in the middle of faneuil hall ? Lester was the ring leader of the beer and chicken crowd during the game and wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. pitching in fenway helps him too.

Uh no that would be Brett Myers.

If Lester would pitch like he did in prior years I would suggest beer and chicken should be back on the menu. A left hander pitching in Fenway helps? Fenway Park helps pitchers? The Fenway Park in Boston?

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh no that would be Brett Myers.

If Lester would pitch like he did in prior years I would suggest beer and chicken should be back on the menu. A left hander pitching in Fenway helps? Fenway Park helps pitchers? The Fenway Park in Boston?

apologies to Cole Hamels..
Fenway is a left handed hitters park. Lester is a lefty, do the math. Green Monster turns Right handed hitters homers into singles.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

apologies to Cole Hamels..
Fenway is a left handed hitters park. Lester is a lefty, do the math. Green Monster turns Right handed hitters homers into singles.

Hold on now. You are a Red Sox fan who thinks that Fenway park FAVORS left handed pitchers? Oh boy

Jon Lester in 2012
Home record (you know in Fenway)
3-8 with 6.60 era

Away record (you know everywhere other than Fenway)
5-2 with 2.99 era

Best left handed starting pitchers for the Boston Red Sox in the Fenway Park era
1. Lefty Grove
2. Bill Lee
3. Mel Parnell
4. Jon Lester
5. Bruce Hurst

Thats a 100 years and Bruce Hurst makes your list?
yeah Fenway is a haven for lefties...


And since you seemingly dont seem to understand how the park plays...pop flys at Fenway often turn into doubles which is far worse for pitchers than your theory (wrong by the way) that the Monster takes away HR and makes them singles.

[dalakhani]

There are a zillion other stats and you use number of earned runs as the metric?

You are right- Lester is as good or even close to as good as king Felix or Kershaw and its only the ballparks that are keeping him from being as dominant. What was I thinking?

The red sox, meanwhile, haven't been to the playoffs since 2009. He has lost his last 3 playoff starts. Meanwhile, from 2009-2011 he was 8-0 against Baltimore and 9-2 against Toronto while he was 6-6 against Tampa. Prior to his last start against the Yankees, he had a 6 plus era and a whip of 1.75 over his last seven starts vs. the yanks.

One more thing: from 2009 -2011 Lester had a better era at home than on the road. Look it up.

Yes, you are right again. Lester is right up there with Halliday.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Really? 2008-2011 he was one of the best 15 starters in baseball (probably top 10). Being that there are 30 teams that would make him not only a number 1 starter but one of the top number 1 starters. Compare his numbers to Cole Hamels who just got $165 million dollar contract. Lester is having a BAD year, no doubt. His he is allowing way more hits, HR's and BB's than he ever has and is striking out fewer which is a disturbing trend. However a young pitcher with an established track record that suddenly has a bad year is almost always a physical issue that they may or may not reveal.

Your statement is absolutely not correct. He was unquestionably a number 1 starter from the time he became a rotation regular in 2008 and this year he is unquestionably barely a number 5 starter based on his production or lack of it.

A lot of teams don't have a number one starter and a couple of teams have more than one guy who could qualify. When you play for a perennial playoff team like the red sox, what would qualify as a number one guy is different than what would qualify in kc. Is that fair to say?

Either way, here are a few guys that I think have been better over the last few years:

Sabathia
King Felix
Verlander
Lincecum
Cliff lee
Kershaw
Weaver
Halliday
Matt Cain
Chris carpenter
David price
Wainwright

And there a few more where a serious debate can be made.

I think Lester is a talented pitcher but do you really want that guy out there game 7? Being that there are only 8 playoff teams (10 now) Boston was hoping for him to be with the group above. In my opinion, he hasn't been as good. He gets the stats and he's won games but he hasn't delivered the way they needed him and that is a big reason they have disappointed so much over the last few years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

A lot of teams don't have a number one starter and a couple of teams have more than one guy who could qualify. When you play for a perennial playoff team like the red sox, what would qualify as a number one guy is different than what would qualify in kc. Is that fair to say?

Either way, here are a few guys that I think have been better over the last few years:

Sabathia
King Felix
Verlander
Lincecum
Cliff lee
Kershaw
Weaver
Halliday
Matt Cain
Chris carpenter
David price
Wainwright

And there a few more where a serious debate can be made.

I think Lester is a talented pitcher but do you really want that guy out there game 7? Being that there are only 8 playoff teams (10 now) Boston was hoping for him to be with the group above. In my opinion, he hasn't been as good. He gets the stats and he's won games but he hasn't delivered the way they needed him and that is a big reason they have disappointed so much over the last few years.

Your last paragraph is so talk radioish. Do I want that guy out there in game 7? Well I would want him out there over 90% of starters in baseball so does that count? I dont know what you base your opinion on but saying a guy "gets the stats" in baseball is, uh, unusual? He hasnt delivered? Based on what? He has delivered 4 seasons of very good pitching in a hitters park with so-so defenses behind him for several of those seasons.

John Lester 2008-2011
65-32
3.33
135 ERA+
20.8 WAR

Lester 2008-2012
73-42
3.58
125 ERA+
20.6 WAR

David Price 2009-2012
57-31
3.21
121 ERA+
12.4 WAR

Cain 2008-2012
60-49
3.11
126 ERA+
13.2 WAR

Lincecum 2008-2011
62-36
2.88
143 ERA+
21.6 WAR

Wainwright 2008-2012
63-32
2.88
138 ERA+
15.7 WAR

Carpenter 2009-2011* (Injured in 2008 and 2012)
44-22
3.02
128 ERA+
12.5 WAR

Weaver 2008-2012
74-41
3.23
126 ERA+
20 WAR

Sabathia 2008-2012
89-36
3.11
140 ERA+
26.1 WAR

Halladay 2008-2012
85-44
2.74
151 ERA+
30.9 WAR

Lee 2008-2012
68-40
2.96
139 ERA+
27.4 WAR

Hernandez 2008-2012
68-47
2.81
142 ERA+
24.7 WAR

Verlander
84-47
3.33
129 ERA+
24.9 WAR

Kershaw
59-35
2.87
135 ERA+
21.6 WAR

I didnt use Lester or Lincecums 2012 season because they are so out of character. Lincecum is having a far worse season this year than Lester.

It is really hard to say that Lester doesnt fit right in the middle of this group. Of course the NL guys have an advantage numbers wise because they dont have to face the DH and several guys here like Hernandez, Kershaw, Cain, Lincecum all play in decidely pitchers parks. Lester isnt the best pitcher in the group by any measure but he is absolutely one of the best starting pitchers in the game and is unquestionably a solid number 1 starter.