Zito's barn isolated as precaution/herpes

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well that is a philosophical debate. Does the stock decline because owners dont have the confidence in them or does the stock decline because of increased competition. I think it is two fold. If you are winning, then people will continue to send you their horses. If you dont...well they wont. But you also have increase pressure from younger trainers.

Look you are certainly allowed your opinion but Cannon Shell's point seems right to me. I can't believe you are suggesting Nick, or anyone, forgets how to train. Try and imagine how hard it is to get owners, keep owners, and keep them happy. To be perfectly honest, and I realize and admit I'm biased, I think it's very impressive just how many horses Nick continues to get in this world of " let's give 'em to Pletcher ". He has kept a lot of tough owners happy for a long time, through thick and thin, so he must be CONTINUING to do a lot more right than wrong.

I don't care who you are, you are only as good as your horses, and as long as Nick keeps getting decent horses I imagine he will keep performing at a very high level.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Look you are certainly allowed your opinion but Cannon Shell's point seems right to me. I can't believe you are suggesting Nick, or anyone, forgets how to train. Try and imagine how hard it is to get owners, keep owners, and keep them happy. To be perfectly honest, and I realize and admit I'm biased, I think it's very impressive just how many horses Nick continues to get in this world of " let's give 'em to Pletcher ". He has kept a lot of tough owners happy for a long time, through thick and thin, so he must be CONTINUING to do a lot more right than wrong.

I don't care who you are, you are only as good as your horses, and as long as Nick keeps getting decent horses I imagine he will keep performing at a very high level.

I understand Cannons point. But if you are winning then will get good stock. Nick has done a unbelievable job over the years. But you cant ignore a 50% decline in earnings. At some point in time a trainer loses a little something. Just like a coach loses a little something at the end of his/her career. I think Nick is getting up there in age and I think he will slowly decline in earnings and TC races. That is all.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I understand Cannons point. But if you are winning then will get good stock. Nick has done a unbelievable job over the years. But you cant ignore a 50% decline in earnings. At some point in time a trainer loses a little something. Just like a coach loses a little something at the end of his/her career. I think Nick is getting up there in age and I think he will slowly decline in earnings and TC races. That is all.

He aint that old.

I think you should maybe take a look at every year he has trained. I would guess like most trainers he has had some down years....not that this year has been a down year. He won the Spring Meet at Keeneland, probably the second biggest meet of the year, for God's sake. How can someone do THAT and be in decline?

Believe me, I don't think you are trying to start a fight, but are just expressing an opinion.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He aint that old.

I think you should maybe take a look at every year he has trained. I would guess like most trainers he has had some down years....not that this year has been a down year. He won the Spring Meet at Keeneland, probably the second biggest meet of the year, for God's sake. How can someone do THAT and be in decline?

Believe me, I don't think you are trying to start a fight, but are just expressing an opinion.

No fights, just an opinion is all. Only time will tell my friends.

[blackthroatedwind]

Geez, you had me feeling bad for Nick, then I saw he has three wins and two seconds the last two days at Churchill.

He needs to retire.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Geez, you had me feeling bad for Nick, then I saw he has three wins and two seconds the last two days at Churchill.

He needs to retire.

yup stick a fork in him...he's done.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Geez, you had me feeling bad for Nick, then I saw he has three wins and two seconds the last two days at Churchill.

He needs to retire.

I never said he was done...I am saying now is the time that his decline begins.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I never said he was done...I am saying now is the time that his decline begins.

Sadly I think we're all declining.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I understand Cannons point. But if you are winning then will get good stock. Nick has done a unbelievable job over the years. But you cant ignore a 50% decline in earnings. At some point in time a trainer loses a little something. Just like a coach loses a little something at the end of his/her career. I think Nick is getting up there in age and I think he will slowly decline in earnings and TC races. That is all.

I don't think anyone here is questioning Nick Zito as a trainer. I think what is at debate here is this 50% decline in earnings and his future. I think the decline in earnings is due to a variety of things, however I don't think it is reflective of a "bad year" so to speak. Last year he had multiple horses on the Derby trail, won and placed in preps, etc., and had horses for spots that might not have truly been the norm. Interestingly enough, if this same discussion took place a few years ago, I for one would have said Nick was on an upswing. The complexion of his barn was changing.

If you look at history and the complexion of Nick's barn, his babies were either homebreds (or pinhooks that were buybacks) or in the $75k to $250k price range. He certainly was not in the Pletcher, Baffert or Lukas price range. Now the last couple of years certain owners started stepping up to bigger price ranges. That can change the complexion of a barn.

From being in this business for quite some time, I have seen an interesting dynamic develop over time. Often, you see owners -- sometimes new, sometimes established -- gravitate to trainers who they might consider a constituent. Of course it's not always true.

Be that as it may, the Pletcher phenomenon without question has an impact on competition and other trainers, the size and complexion of their barns, etc. I think trainers today will find that new skills are needed -- not limited to training horses, but in the area of "client management" and dealing with people. I don't think trainers get wealthy on their daily rate so there is a different mindset needed.

I've always said -- never count out Nick Zito. IMO he hasn't lost a thing, a step, nothing.

Eric