12 shot dead at in Aurora, Colorado

[bigrun]

Americans may never willingly give up their guns. Yet, they ought at least to recognize that the authors of the Second Amendment, although they championed the right to bear arms, would have been appalled that in the United States an epidemic of violence, much of it mindlessly random, has induced people to carry firearms to ensure their own protection. Self-defense it may be. Freedom it is not.

two days after Loughner wounded 14 persons, including then Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, and killed six others, the purchase of handguns rose by 60 percent in Arizona, by 65 percent in Ohio, by 38 percent in Illinois, and by 33 percent in New York.

Heard on the eve news that gun sales were way up Monday..


http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/o...ol-ar-2077976/

[SOREHOOF]

The founders would think they were in a safer place. They would be appalled at the apathy and gullibility of the citizenship. The author must be living in a fantasy land. There is not one shred of evidence that strict gun control reduces crime, not one. The opposite happens to be true. The crime rate continues to drop after the "assault weapon" ban expired. Crime rates in Texas and Florida dropped after less restrictive laws were put into place. Chicago and N.Y.C. are the prime examples of what strict gun control laws bring. Most countries in the World live with far more violence than the U.S.A.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Heard on the eve news that gun sales were way up Monday..


http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/o...ol-ar-2077976/

violent crime is way down, lower than it's been in decades. and yeah, when people hear of things like this, the first thing they think of is defending themselves. after 9/11 gun sales went thru the roof-but there was no corresponding increase in crime.


"The last time the crime rate for serious crime – murder, rape, robbery, assault – fell to these levels, gasoline cost 29 cents a gallon and the average income for a working American was $5,807.




That was 1963.

In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half, from 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to 5.0 in 2009. Meanwhile, robberies were down 10 percent in 2010 from the year before and 8 percent in 2009.


The declines are not just a blip, say criminologists. Rather, they are the result of a host of changes that have fundamentally reversed the high-crime trends of the 1980s. And these changes have taken hold to such a degree that the drop in crime continued despite the recent recession.

Because the pattern "transcends cities and US regions, we can safely say crime is down," says James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston. "We are indeed a safer nation than 20 years ago."


and here's this, from an article about gun violence:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gu...gun-ownership/


Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.

The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent.

At the same time that firearms murders were dropping, gun sales were surging. In 2009, FBI background checks for guns increased by 30 percent over the previous year, while firearms sales in large retail outlets increased by almost 40 percent. The number of applications for concealed carry permits jumped across the country as well.


and note points in that article such as this:


Broken down by firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, the District of Columbia is number one, with 16 firearms murders per 100,000 people in the District.

D.C. also topped the list of firearm robberies per 100,000 people with 255.98.

Yet D.C. arguably has the tightest gun laws in the country. Although an outright ban on handguns was struck down by the Supreme Court in 2008, legislators ensured the new regulations for obtaining a registered handgun would be anything but easy.


or


The top three states for gun murders in 2010 were, in order, California, Texas and New York. While Texas has lax gun control laws, California and New York are among the strictest gun-control states in the country.

[Antitrust32]

Ocala and Philly must have been excluded from that Data, Zig!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Ocala and Philly must have been excluded from that Data, Zig!

i guess i need to start putting up a disclaimer, saying i'm not the one who is responsible for the data, just passing it along!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess i need to start putting up a disclaimer, saying i'm not the one who is responsible for the data, just passing it along!

you mean you dont write for the daily caller??

I didnt live in Ocala 20 years ago, so I dont know how it was then.. But the theft and voilent crime is out of control here.

We are safer than 4% of the country. I guess that means 96% of the country is safer than Ocala. that sucks

Ocala Annual Crime: Violent: 461 Property: 3,171

Per 1,000 people Violent: 8.19 Property: 56.31

Specifically, violent crime and property crim in Ocala is DOUBLE the national average... even worse than the rest of Florida.

My chances of becoming a victim (violent crime) Ocala: 1 in 122 Florida: 1 in 184

My chances of becoming a victim (property crime) Ocala: 1 in 17 Florida: 1 in 28


figures are from NeighborhoodScout.com

I'm scared to look at philly.

[Antitrust32]

Philly is at 9%... meaning 91% of the country is safer.

Violent crime is off the charts.. 12.15 per 1,000 residents. Property crime is not as bad, 37.87 per 1,000 residents.

damn... Philly is 5% safer than Ocala!!

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

you mean you dont write for the daily caller??

I didnt live in Ocala 20 years ago, so I dont know how it was then.. But the theft and voilent crime is out of control here.

We are safer than 4% of the country. I guess that means 96% of the country is safer than Ocala. that sucks

Ocala Annual Crime: Violent: 461 Property: 3,171

Per 1,000 people Violent: 8.19 Property: 56.31

Specifically, violent crime and property crim in Ocala is DOUBLE the national average... even worse than the rest of Florida.

My chances of becoming a victim (violent crime) Ocala: 1 in 122 Florida: 1 in 184

My chances of becoming a victim (property crime) Ocala: 1 in 17 Florida: 1 in 28


figures are from NeighborhoodScout.com

I'm scared to look at philly.

Why do you think Ocala is so bad?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by golfer

Why do you think Ocala is so bad?

I think poverty has a lot to do with it. While there are a few "rich" area's, and also of course the horse farms... I would bet that the majority of ocala is at or below the poverty line. Unemployment is also much higher than the national average... and drug use, especially perscription pills (Roxies are the DEVIL) and meth/crack seem to be rampant.

All that leads to higher crime rates, IMO.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

you mean you dont write for the daily caller?? I didnt live in Ocala 20 years ago, so I dont know how it was then.. But the theft and voilent crime is out of control here.

We are safer than 4% of the country. I guess that means 96% of the country is safer than Ocala. that sucks

Ocala Annual Crime: Violent: 461 Property: 3,171

Per 1,000 people Violent: 8.19 Property: 56.31

Specifically, violent crime and property crim in Ocala is DOUBLE the national average... even worse than the rest of Florida.

My chances of becoming a victim (violent crime) Ocala: 1 in 122 Florida: 1 in 184

My chances of becoming a victim (property crime) Ocala: 1 in 17 Florida: 1 in 28


figures are from NeighborhoodScout.com

I'm scared to look at philly.

nope, sorry! watch your back down there!

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Danzig

violent crime is way down, lower than it's been in decades. and yeah, when people hear of things like this, the first thing they think of is defending themselves. after 9/11 gun sales went thru the roof-but there was no corresponding increase in crime.


"The last time the crime rate for serious crime – murder, rape, robbery, assault – fell to these levels, gasoline cost 29 cents a gallon and the average income for a working American was $5,807.




That was 1963.

In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half, from 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to 5.0 in 2009. Meanwhile, robberies were down 10 percent in 2010 from the year before and 8 percent in 2009.


The declines are not just a blip, say criminologists. Rather, they are the result of a host of changes that have fundamentally reversed the high-crime trends of the 1980s. And these changes have taken hold to such a degree that the drop in crime continued despite the recent recession.

Because the pattern "transcends cities and US regions, we can safely say crime is down," says James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston. "We are indeed a safer nation than 20 years ago."


and here's this, from an article about gun violence:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gu...gun-ownership/


Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.

The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent.

At the same time that firearms murders were dropping, gun sales were surging. In 2009, FBI background checks for guns increased by 30 percent over the previous year, while firearms sales in large retail outlets increased by almost 40 percent. The number of applications for concealed carry permits jumped across the country as well.


and note points in that article such as this:


Broken down by firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, the District of Columbia is number one, with 16 firearms murders per 100,000 people in the District.

D.C. also topped the list of firearm robberies per 100,000 people with 255.98.

Yet D.C. arguably has the tightest gun laws in the country. Although an outright ban on handguns was struck down by the Supreme Court in 2008, legislators ensured the new regulations for obtaining a registered handgun would be anything but easy.


or


The top three states for gun murders in 2010 were, in order, California, Texas and New York. While Texas has lax gun control laws, California and New York are among the strictest gun-control states in the country.

SO guns don't kill people, laws do!!!

I like it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

SO guns don't kill people, laws do!!!

I like it.

ha!!

just found it interesting that people want to tear their shirts, pull out their hair and scream about the number of guns and gun owners whenever a lone nut goes bonkers.
and yet.....more guns than ever, and the rates are declining...how can this be??? you'd think it would be the opposite, judging by the clamoring.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

ha!!

just found it interesting that people want to tear their shirts, pull out their hair and scream about the number of guns and gun owners whenever a lone nut goes bonkers.
and yet.....more guns than ever, and the rates are declining...how can this be??? you'd think it would be the opposite, judging by the clamoring.

Colbert had some funny stuff on Romney last nite...His guest was guy named Dan Gross of The Brady Campaign...Gave his website to sign a petition http://www.wearebetterthanthis.org/
Interesting interview, of course the subject was gun control...
If you have time check out the show for some laughs..
http://www.colbertnation.com/

[Riot]

No private American citizens "need" access to assault rifles and 100-shot ammo cannisters. Ban them.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

No private American citizens "need" access to assault rifles and 100-shot ammo cannisters. Ban them.

Were it not for the 100 shot magazine he used way more people would be dead or wounded. It jammed because of the large mag, had he been changing the gun doesn't jam. While I agree about the huge magazine, in this case it (and the common malfunction of such a thing) helped a bit.