12 shot dead at in Aurora, Colorado

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Guy was well armed and dressed entirely in body armor, I think they said 6000 rounds of ammo to go along with automatic weapons and tear gas/gas mask. Tragic beyond belief...another poster boy for the NRA.

Don't be ridiculous. This is the one occasion where someone actually bought the weapons legally so now we need to prevent the law abiding citizens from getting weapons.
When will people figure out that if you make something illegal then ONLY criminals get to have, thus giving them an upper hand.
No one in the theater was carrying a gun because the theater has a no guns policy, one person ignored that and got to kill a bunch of defenseless people.
Be realistic.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec...ion/na-shoot11
She wasn't supposed to be armed as that was a gun free zone. Worked out pretty well though. At least give citizens a fighting chance.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Don't be ridiculous. This is the one occasion where someone actually bought the weapons legally so now we need to prevent the law abiding citizens from getting weapons.
When will people figure out that if you make something illegal then ONLY criminals get to have, thus giving them an upper hand.
No one in the theater was carrying a gun because the theater has a no guns policy, one person ignored that and got to kill a bunch of defenseless people.
Be realistic.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec...ion/na-shoot11
She wasn't supposed to be armed as that was a gun free zone. Worked out pretty well though. At least give citizens a fighting chance.

Worked out great except for the four people he killed and five he injured.

Nowhere in the article did it say the church was a gun-free zone. In fact, the pastor says at the end that security volunteers were legally able to carry firearms.

In fact, though the security guard injured him, the assailant killed himself:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3...1#.UAwuBRxiBwc

[GenuineRisk]

The Aurora assailant purchased 4 guns and 6,000 rounds of ammo in a two-month period, including an assault rifle. Legally.

Though the US contains enough legal firearms for every citizen to have a gun, the percentage of Americans who own firearms is declining. It was one out of two in the 1970s and now it's about one in five, and this is after 30 years of declining regulations. It gets easier and easier to buy firearms, and yet fewer Americans are buying them. So the firearm industry depends on 20 percent of the nation to keep them profitable, as most of these gun owners own more than one firearm (quick poll of the DT gun owners- how many of you own more than one firearm? You can give props to the firearm industry for their excellent manipulation of your consumer habits. You did exactly what they want you to do.). So they're thrilled when someone like Holmes buys 4 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo in a two-month period.

So the firearm industry gets White America worked up over omigawd the brown guy in the White House is going to take our guns away and gun owners obediently file out to buy more firearms, ammunition, whatever the gun industry tells them is going to be taken away from them. And there's not an iota of truth to any of the lies but gun owners are easily manipulated by fear.

And so people like Holmes can purchase 4 guns and 6000 rounds of ammunition in a two-month period, including an assault rifle and there was no way to flag the fact that a guy was accumulating a ridonkuolous amount of firepower or to stop him. And a six-year-old is dead and her mother lies paralyzed in a hospital, still unaware she will never see her child again. And that's just one of the victims.

The fact that the NRA has endorsed Romney, who has signed gun-control legislation (a ban on assault weapons), and not Obama, who has never signed gun-control legislation, nor has he made any effort to push legislation in the past 4 years, should make it really clear that it's not about "freedom" or "safety." It's about business. And corporations are people my friend. What's a six-year-old's life compared to the rights of industry?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The Aurora assailant purchased 4 guns and 6,000 rounds of ammo in a two-month period, including an assault rifle. Legally.

Though the US contains enough legal firearms for every citizen to have a gun, the percentage of Americans who own firearms is declining. It was one out of two in the 1970s and now it's about one in five, and this is after 30 years of declining regulations. It gets easier and easier to buy firearms, and yet fewer Americans are buying them. So the firearm industry depends on 20 percent of the nation to keep them profitable, as most of these gun owners own more than one firearm (quick poll of the DT gun owners- how many of you own more than one firearm? You can give props to the firearm industry for their excellent manipulation of your consumer habits. You did exactly what they want you to do.). So they're thrilled when someone like Holmes buys 4 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo in a two-month period.

So the firearm industry gets White America worked up over omigawd the brown guy in the White House is going to take our guns away and gun owners obediently file out to buy more firearms, ammunition, whatever the gun industry tells them is going to be taken away from them. And there's not an iota of truth to any of the lies but gun owners are easily manipulated by fear.

And so people like Holmes can purchase 4 guns and 6000 rounds of ammunition in a two-month period, including an assault rifle and there was no way to flag the fact that a guy was accumulating a ridonkuolous amount of firepower or to stop him. And a six-year-old is dead and her mother lies paralyzed in a hospital, still unaware she will never see her child again. And that's just one of the victims.

The fact that the NRA has endorsed Romney, who has signed gun-control legislation (a ban on assault weapons), and not Obama, who has never signed gun-control legislation, nor has he made any effort to push legislation in the past 4 years, should make it really clear that it's not about "freedom" or "safety." It's about business. And corporations are people my friend. What's a six-year-old's life compared to the rights of industry?

we have 17 guns. accumulated them over the years, different calibers, different uses. and i'm no more inclined to commit a crime now than i was when i had none, or bought my first. gun ownership doesn't mean criminal intent. and most people don't want their rights taken away because of the occasional nut job, who would wreak havoc via another method. my big question is considering his mothers comments after, why did no one do a thing when they recognized he was becoming an issue? calls to police or mental health services may have made the difference. also, passing more controls would affect people like me, but not people like holmes. someone hellbent on destruction is going to get his way.
oh, and check out my link above regarding politicizing tragedies like these. your post reminded me of that article.

and yes, the firearm industry gets worked up whenever a dem is in office, regardless of color. i think that point you tried to make is ridiculous.
and crime rates, including violent crimes, have been on a decline. a report said crime overall is the lowest it's been in decades.

[Danzig]

here's an excerpt from an article about crime stats:


'The last time the crime rate for serious crime – murder, rape, robbery, assault – fell to these levels, gasoline cost 29 cents a gallon and the average income for a working American was $5,807.
That was 1963.

In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half, from 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to 5.0 in 2009. Meanwhile, robberies were down 10 percent in 2010 from the year before and 8 percent in 2009.'

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

here's an excerpt from an article about crime stats:


'The last time the crime rate for serious crime – murder, rape, robbery, assault – fell to these levels, gasoline cost 29 cents a gallon and the average income for a working American was $5,807.
That was 1963.

In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half, from 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to 5.0 in 2009. Meanwhile, robberies were down 10 percent in 2010 from the year before and 8 percent in 2009.'

Good. Then let's help it along in a big way, by reinstituting the assault rifle ban. Nobody needs an assault rifle any more than they need bazookas or tanks. I'm all in favor of purchasing pistols, automatics and hunting rifles. But I want a waiting period on everything, and bans on large magazines.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good. Then let's help it along in a big way, by reinstituting the assault rifle ban. Nobody needs an assault rifle any more than they need bazookas or tanks. I'm all in favor of purchasing pistols, automatics and hunting rifles. But I want a waiting period on everything, and bans on large magazines.

That's what i was trying to say in my mumbled post...you aced it...

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The Aurora assailant purchased 4 guns and 6,000 rounds of ammo in a two-month period, including an assault rifle. Legally.

Though the US contains enough legal firearms for every citizen to have a gun, the percentage of Americans who own firearms is declining. It was one out of two in the 1970s and now it's about one in five, and this is after 30 years of declining regulations. It gets easier and easier to buy firearms, and yet fewer Americans are buying them. So the firearm industry depends on 20 percent of the nation to keep them profitable, as most of these gun owners own more than one firearm (quick poll of the DT gun owners- how many of you own more than one firearm? You can give props to the firearm industry for their excellent manipulation of your consumer habits. You did exactly what they want you to do.). So they're thrilled when someone like Holmes buys 4 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo in a two-month period.

So the firearm industry gets White America worked up over omigawd the brown guy in the White House is going to take our guns away and gun owners obediently file out to buy more firearms, ammunition, whatever the gun industry tells them is going to be taken away from them. And there's not an iota of truth to any of the lies but gun owners are easily manipulated by fear.

And so people like Holmes can purchase 4 guns and 6000 rounds of ammunition in a two-month period, including an assault rifle and there was no way to flag the fact that a guy was accumulating a ridonkuolous amount of firepower or to stop him. And a six-year-old is dead and her mother lies paralyzed in a hospital, still unaware she will never see her child again. And that's just one of the victims.

The fact that the NRA has endorsed Romney, who has signed gun-control legislation (a ban on assault weapons), and not Obama, who has never signed gun-control legislation, nor has he made any effort to push legislation in the past 4 years, should make it really clear that it's not about "freedom" or "safety." It's about business. And corporations are people my friend. What's a six-year-old's life compared to the rights of industry?

It's always about business..I just can't understand why any normal citizen needs an assault weapon with a 30 round or more clip, a shotgun, a couple pistols...Isn't a pistol or two for protection enough?...In VA recently they lifted the one gun a month law, now you can buy as many as you want..
One gun a month wasn't enough!...wtf needs one gun a month let alone unlimited per month...I'm not opposed to people owning guns, just be reasonable..My son-in-law has 3 shotguns and a pistol..He and the two grandsons are hunters, and good ones i might add..I had an AK-47, .357 magnum and a .22 rifle...came by them from a friend and they were in storage for years, never used by me..except the .22...sold all three about 3 years ago to gun shop..all i have now is a hunting knife and a filet knife i use if i ever catch any big bass..

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

It's always about business..I just can't understand why any normal citizen needs an assault weapon with a 30 round or more clip, a shotgun, a couple pistols...Isn't a pistol or two for protection enough?...In VA recently they lifted the one gun a month law, now you can buy as many as you want..
One gun a month wasn't enough!...wtf needs one gun a month let alone unlimited per month...I'm not opposed to people owning guns, just be reasonable..My son-in-law has 3 shotguns and a pistol..He and the two grandsons are hunters, and good ones i might add..I had an AK-47, .357 magnum and a .22 rifle...came by them from a friend and they were in storage for years, never used by me..except the .22...sold all three about 3 years ago to gun shop..all i have now is a hunting knife and a filet knife i use if i ever catch any big bass..

so, who gets to decide what's reasonable? i don't find the guns i own an unreasonable amount. they're for different uses, they're different types, different calibres.
and here's a newsflash for you. the only people who will be affected by those laws and limits are those who will follow the law. those hell bent on killing, robbing, committing crimes-it won't affect them. just people like me who aren't scofflaws.
and had holmes been unable to get guns, he'd have done something else. like mcveigh did in okla city.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so, who gets to decide what's reasonable?

We do. The citizens of the United States.

In fact, let's vote on it, via our representatives in Congress. Let's vote on a ban on assault rifles.

and here's a newsflash for you. the only people who will be affected by those laws and limits are those who will follow the law. those hell bent on killing, robbing, committing crimes-it won't affect them.

Proven wrong. Look at the crime statistics of places where those laws are stricter than the US. If they can't obtain assault rifles and 30-shot magazines, they can't use them on their fellow citizens. If they can't obtain automatic pistols, and handguns, they don't use them on their fellow citizens.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so, who gets to decide what's reasonable? i don't find the guns i own an unreasonable amount. they're for different uses, they're different types, different calibres.
and here's a newsflash for you. the only people who will be affected by those laws and limits are those who will follow the law. those hell bent on killing, robbing, committing crimes-it won't affect them. just people like me who aren't scofflaws.
and had holmes been unable to get guns, he'd have done something else. like mcveigh did in okla city.

so, who gets to decide what's reasonable? i don't find the guns i own an unreasonable amount. they're for different uses, they're different types, different calibres.

Fine, but you didn't buy all of them in one month i'm guessing...The reason VA passed one gun a month long ago was because many of VA purchased guns were showing up in crimes in NY...think they used to call I95 the gun freeway...

and here's a newsflash for you. the only people who will be affected by those laws and limits are those who will follow the law. those hell bent on killing, robbing, committing crimes-it won't affect them. just people like me who aren't scofflaws.
and had holmes been unable to get guns, he'd have done something else. like mcveigh did in okla city.

One gun a month not enough for those who follow the law?

No one, nothing will ever stop the crazies of the world, McVeigh,Nidal Hasan, Charles Whitman, et al from doing their destruction..

[Riot]

"Guns don't kill people. People who have access to guns kill people".
----------------------------------

"The U.S. gun homicide rate is 20 times the combined rate of other western nations."

Jim Moran on Tuesday, January 10th, 2012 in a newspaper column.

Rep. Jim Moran says U.S. gun homicide rate 20 times higher than other western nations

PolitiFact says: Mostly True

U.S. Rep. Jim Moran marked the first anniversary of the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona with a call for more gun control.

"The U.S. gun homicide rate is 20 times the combined rate of other western nations," Moran, D-8th, wrote in a Jan. 10 column that ran in the Falls Church News-Press.

That statistic caught our eye. We wondered if Moran is right.

A Moran spokeswoman told us the congressman’s claim is based on a study of the homicide rates of wealthy nations in 2003, conducted by the UCLA School of Public Health. The report, published in 2010, uses data from the World Health Organization to compare gun-related homicide, gun-related suicide and unintentional and undetermined gun deaths for all ages and both sexes.

Vital statistics from the U.S. were compared to those from 22 other high-income countries with populations over 1 million people that reported causes of mortality to WHO for 2003. Researchers relied on The World Bank’s definition of a high income nation, which included countries that had a gross national income per capita of $12,276 or more for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2011.

In addition to the U.S., the study included Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom (England and Wales), United Kingdom (Northern Ireland) and United Kingdom (Scotland).

Researchers determined that the rate of homicides with guns in the U.S. was 4.1 per 100,000 people; the same rate combining the 22 other countries was 0.2 per 100,000 in 2003.

The rate of homicides using guns in the U.S. was 19.5 times the rate of the other countries. Moran, rounding up, correctly repeated that factoid.

We decided to see if there were more recent numbers than 2003. U.N. and national statistics for those same countries showed the gap closed. The most recent data, mostly from 2009, shows a gun homicide rate of 3.0 per 100,000 people in the U.S. and 0.2 in the 22 other countries used in the firearm fatality study. The U.S., with its decrease, had a rate around 15 times those of other countries.

Next, we moved away from numbers for a second and examined the terminology Moran used in his column. It is imprecise.

The congressman wrote that the U.S. gun homicide rate is 20 times higher "than other western nations." But in fact, he was comparing them to them a selective group of wealthy nations. And not all them -- such as Japan -- are typically considered a "western nation."

The term "western nation" is not listed in Webster’s New World College Dictionary and we found a range of definitions online.

Most commonly, the term is used to describe countries where Western Europeans have settled or have influence. We tried to come up with a list of such nations and settled on the 28 countries that are NATO members.

The most recent gun-related homicide rate for the U.S. was 3.0 per 100,000 compared to an 0.3 for the rest of the NATO nations. The U.S. rate was 10 times higher.

Our ruling:

Moran, calling for stronger gun regulations, wrote "The U.S. gun homicide rate is 20 times the combined rate of other western nations."

Moran used the right number from a report based on 2003 data. But the researchers did not claim to analyze "western nations," they compared gun homicide rates in 23 "populous, high income" countries, including Japan.

If you compare the most recent data on the same group of nations, mostly based on 2009 statistics, the U.S. gun homicide rate is 15 times higher then the other countries. The number fell 10 times as high when we defined the inexact term of "western nations" as countries belonging to NATO.

So Moran’s figures are outdated and on the high side. His terminology is loose. But his point -- that gun homicide rates in the U.S. tower over those of other wealthy European nations -- holds up.

We rate the statement Mostly True.

[Danzig]

[quote=bigrun;876778]Fine, but you didn't buy all of them in one month i'm guessing...The reason VA passed one gun a month long ago was because many of VA purchased guns were showing up in crimes in NY...think they used to call I95 the gun freeway...



One gun a month not enough for those who follow the law?

No one, nothing will ever stop the crazies of the world, McVeigh,Nidal Hasan, Charles Whitman, et al from doing their destruction..[/QUOTE]

that's exactly right. so why the hand-wringing and suggestions for tougher laws? exactly who will be affected? not the ones they're trying to stop, that's for sure.
this has more to do with people wanting to be able to control everyone, and everything, and leave absolutely nothing to chance. good luck with that. tragedies will still occur. and just like all the others, they'll be senseless and leave people wondering why.
if people truly want to see something change, perhaps people should encourage those with loony relatives to call someone. the guys mother didn't sound surprised to know he did something. why did she choose to do nothing?