Derby replaces graded earnings with point system

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

SO what is the incentive of getting the most points? At least offer a bonus for any horse that is in the top 5 (in points) AND wins the Ky Derby

Free lifetime pp's from twinspires.com

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Free lifetime pp's from twinspires.com

I tried to give you 5 trophies Chuck, but I was limited to 4.

I just don't see this system bring in new fans, which is pretty much the 1st words spoken by them about this. How can new fans understand this when I can't and I have watched horseracing for over 30 years?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

I tried to give you 5 trophies Chuck, but I was limited to 4.

I just don't see this system bring in new fans, which is pretty much the 1st words spoken by them about this. How can new fans understand this when I can't and I have watched horseracing for over 30 years?

They use the new fans mantra whenever they do something that may piss people off. Like charging you a non-refundable fee to maybe get Derby tickets.

Though I saw the Yankees brass was trying the same tactic the other day when complaining about stubhub saying they were concerned about fans. The irony is they were complaining that low prices for tickets on the resale market might force them to raise prices in the future because fans were choosing to buy from stubhub rather than buy Yankee face value tickets. So basically they said low ticket prices for fans was going to cause higher ticket prices for fans...

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

I tried to give you 5 trophies Chuck, but I was limited to 4.

I just don't see this system bring in new fans, which is pretty much the 1st words spoken by them about this. How can new fans understand this when I can't and I have watched horseracing for over 30 years?

there's a max on 4 trophies available for any post regardless of quality until the 3 year old season.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

there's a max on 4 trophies available for any post regardless of quality until the 3 year old season.

Would that be in March, or April?

[slotdirt]

I've been thinking about the silliness of this new system for the last few days. Envision the horse who breaks his maiden impressively at DMR, takes the Del Mar Futurity second out, and wins the Norfolk with ease in his third start (10 points). The horse racing world would be buzzing about said horse. Horse has a minor fever and is held out of the Breeders Cup, but is well enough to come back and run a very game second in the Cashcall Futurity (four points). After a freshening, the same horse comes back and airs in the Robert B. Lewis (10 more points), but has all kinds of trouble and ends up fourth in Santa Anita Derby (10 points).

After all of that, this horse would have easily made the Derby under the old system, but under the new system, he's very much a fringe candidate. And for the casual fan who just happened to catch the maiden breaker at DMR and as a result has been following the horse into his 3YO career, it would be difficult to explain why such a clearly talented animal is missing the field.

I'm going to need a cheat sheet to understand Derby entry come 2013.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I've been thinking about the silliness of this new system for the last few days. Envision the horse who breaks his maiden impressively at DMR, takes the Del Mar Futurity second out, and wins the Norfolk with ease in his third start (10 points). The horse racing world would be buzzing about said horse. Horse has a minor fever and is held out of the Breeders Cup, but is well enough to come back and run a very game second in the Cashcall Futurity (four points). After a freshening, the same horse comes back and airs in the Robert B. Lewis (10 more points), but has all kinds of trouble and ends up fourth in Santa Anita Derby (10 points).

After all of that, this horse would have easily made the Derby under the old system, but under the new system, he's very much a fringe candidate. And for the casual fan who just happened to catch the maiden breaker at DMR and as a result has been following the horse into his 3YO career, it would be difficult to explain why such a clearly talented animal is missing the field.

I'm going to need a cheat sheet to understand Derby entry come 2013.

There is absolutely no way that a horse with 34 pts is missing the Derby. None. It's also highly unlikely he is a fringe player. This 40 pt number is hysterical. It's like saying under the old system you needed 500k to get in the gate.

More importantly, this hypothetical horse's trainer could have easily started him between the Lewis and SA Derby. It's OK for horses to be run more than twice before the Kentucky Derby.

[slotdirt]

Horses aren't machines. Stuff happens. What if a horse lost a week of training time because of a minor ailment between the Robert B. Lewis and SA Derby?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

There is absolutely no way that a horse with 34 pts is missing the Derby. None. It's also highly unlikely he is a fringe player. This 40 pt number is hysterical. It's like saying under the old system you needed 500k to get in the gate.

More importantly, this hypothetical horse's trainer could have easily started him between the Lewis and SA Derby. It's OK for horses to be run more than twice before the Kentucky Derby.

Yeah.

The person who started that idiotic 40 points cut-off stuff was Churchill Downs communications director Darren Rodgers.

The system is stupid and the Chuchill people who claim they did "extensive research" in the USA Today piece aren't very bright to say the least.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

It's OK for horses to be run more than twice before the Kentucky Derby.

Thanks, that was the point I was making early on, maybe being ultra conservative race 2 times in the 5 months prior to the Derby might be given a second thought.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I've been thinking about the silliness of this new system for the last few days. Envision the horse who breaks his maiden impressively at DMR, takes the Del Mar Futurity second out, and wins the Norfolk with ease in his third start (10 points). The horse racing world would be buzzing about said horse. Horse has a minor fever and is held out of the Breeders Cup, but is well enough to come back and run a very game second in the Cashcall Futurity (four points). After a freshening, the same horse comes back and airs in the Robert B. Lewis (10 more points), but has all kinds of trouble and ends up fourth in Santa Anita Derby (10 points).

After all of that, this horse would have easily made the Derby under the old system, but under the new system, he's very much a fringe candidate. And for the casual fan who just happened to catch the maiden breaker at DMR and as a result has been following the horse into his 3YO career, it would be difficult to explain why such a clearly talented animal is missing the field.

I'm going to need a cheat sheet to understand Derby entry come 2013.

The hell with the cheat sheet for getting in, get a crystal ball to figure out who's going to bleed and run up the track.

[slotdirt]

Even if it's a 30 point threshold, there are plenty of scenarios where a horse wins a couple of 10 point races in the late winter and misses the Derby. But hey, the Louisiana Derby is worth 100 points, so it's all good. Friesan Fire will be psyched.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I've been thinking about the silliness of this new system for the last few days. Envision the horse who breaks his maiden impressively at DMR, takes the Del Mar Futurity second out, and wins the Norfolk with ease in his third start (10 points). The horse racing world would be buzzing about said horse. Horse has a minor fever and is held out of the Breeders Cup, but is well enough to come back and run a very game second in the Cashcall Futurity (four points). After a freshening, the same horse comes back and airs in the Robert B. Lewis (10 more points), but has all kinds of trouble and ends up fourth in Santa Anita Derby (10 points).

After all of that, this horse would have easily made the Derby under the old system, but under the new system, he's very much a fringe candidate. And for the casual fan who just happened to catch the maiden breaker at DMR and as a result has been following the horse into his 3YO career, it would be difficult to explain why such a clearly talented animal is missing the field.

I'm going to need a cheat sheet to understand Derby entry come 2013.

So which is it, that, or this?

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I think there will be a few years in the near future where the field doesn't get anywhere close to 20.

I understand if you don't like the system, but letting your imagination run wild with hypotheticals for horses that could be excluded is silly.

[Merlinsky]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-road-to-derby

I guess I missed this when they first announced the points system because we were obsessing more about what races were how many points. It says that if there's a tie in points to make the Derby or Oaks, the tiebreaker is unrestricted stakes earnings, graded or not. I doubt at that point it'd matter because it'd mostly involve graded earnings, but it's odd that they made a point of not specifying graded earnings. Despite CD's best efforts, the Illinois Derby could still matter to bump someone past a tie for 20. I guess ungraded 2yo stakes earnings could make the difference which is just strange.