A great day for the sport.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Yesterday was my first Belmont and while I was hoping to see history, I still had a very enjoyable time (despite maybe my worst day ever at the windows). It was crowded, but bearable. I thought that NYRA did a very good job. There were plenty of buses from the parking lot, plenty of tellers and opportunites to get food and drink all over the place. I don't recall waiting on line for anything yesterday. The only lines that I did see were from the woman's room and the ATM (which was literally 100 deep). No sure how I would have fared if the other 40k showed up, but I would have grinned and beared it. I'm not that keen on big crowds, but I wouldn't hesitate again to go to the Belmont.

But the thing that struck me the most, was the amount of young people that were there. I'm guessing that the Belmont and pretty much the rest of the TC series have become more of social events that happen to have horses race every 45 minutes. That being said, the atmosphere was excellent and the crowd really got in to the races.

It made me think that the sport does have a chance, but they really need to capitalize on days like yesterday. That's where I think that NYRA might have dropped the ball. They had large crowd on hand and there was no promotion (or at least I didn't see any) of any future event to try to get some of the patrons back. Like I said, there were tons of young people there. Schedule a concert on a sunset Friday, bring your stub next week on Father's Day and get free admission and a hat. Have a handicapping help station, where newbies can ask questions the whole day. Just do something that might want to make them come back before next year's Belmont and even better maybe they'll come back because they like the racing..

This is Keeneland every weekend they race. You don't need a Triple Crown race to make this happen. The sport may not be magical but it is far from dead.

Paul

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by pweizer

This is Keeneland every weekend they race. You don't need a Triple Crown race to make this happen. The sport may not be magical but it is far from dead.

Paul

It's Saratoga also. The million dollar question is how to make it happen at more places. How do we convince everyone else what a great time our sport is to watch and participate in? How can we show them they are missing out if they aren't there?

I don't have the answer but it feels like educating them about the game further can only help. Horses racing longer, so people actually can follow a horses career for more than a few months will help.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's Saratoga also. The million dollar question is how to make it happen at more places. How do we convince everyone else what a great time our sport is to watch and participate in? How can we show them they are missing out if they aren't there?

I don't have the answer but it feels like educating them about the game further can only help. Horses racing longer, so people actually can follow a horses career for more than a few months will help.

I think the bigger issues are the mechanics of the sport and not the product on the field, so to speak.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's Saratoga also. The million dollar question is how to make it happen at more places. How do we convince everyone else what a great time our sport is to watch and participate in? How can we show them they are missing out if they aren't there?

I don't have the answer but it feels like educating them about the game further can only help. Horses racing longer, so people actually can follow a horses career for more than a few months will help.

I think racing, at least on the weekends, needs to be more of a social event at the track. I don't mean "society," but social in that it's a place to hang out, and not solely for wagering. A day at the track is a long one and for the casual race fan, it's nice to be able to get up, walk around and look at things besides the tote board.

I don't know about other tracks, but the food options at Aqueduct and Belmont are awful. A six or eight-hour day out of the city when all you can order are bad burgers, fries and chicken fingers is a bit of a bummer.

My uncle, in his late 60s, spent his whole life in Pennsylvania, and he told me when he was younger, Penn National was so crowded on weekends that if you didn't arrive an hour before the first race, you'd be parking a mile from the track and walking. He also said they often had bands, etc. so the afternoon was as much about entertainment as it was gambling.

It may require racing associations to accept that the big gamblers are still likely to wager from their living rooms, but there is still value in casual fans, who may not be as valuable for gambling dollars, but who will spend money on concessions, souvenirs, and put money into the economy through their consumerism. And, of course, they'll still gamble.

What I love about racing (besides the fact that yes, horses are pretty) is that it's a far more interactive sport than any other. The gambling is the point- it makes the fan an active, not passive, viewer. But that's something that takes a while to discover and I think tracks need to take the effort to bring people who want an entertaining afternoon first, and trust they'll discover the fun in gambling eventually.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think racing, at least on the weekends, needs to be more of a social event at the track. I don't mean "society," but social in that it's a place to hang out, and not solely for wagering. A day at the track is a long one and for the casual race fan, it's nice to be able to get up, walk around and look at things besides the tote board.

I don't know about other tracks, but the food options at Aqueduct and Belmont are awful. A six or eight-hour day out of the city when all you can order are bad burgers, fries and chicken fingers is a bit of a bummer.

It may require racing associations to accept that the big gamblers are still likely to wager from their living rooms, but there is still value in casual fans, who may not be as valuable for gambling dollars, but who will spend money on concessions, souvenirs, and put money into the economy through their consumerism. And, of course, they'll still gamble.

I think you have made some fair points here. I don't really disagree with any of them, but there are other food options at Aqueduct and Belmont and not just burgers, hot dogs and chicken fingers.

The only thing I will say about the casual fan thing is that yes, racing should be trying to get them involved. But horse racing is different than say football or baseball. Those sports need the fan to come out because they depend on the profit from the overpriced beer, souvenirs, etc. Racing depends on gambling dollars.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think you have made some fair points here. I don't really disagree with any of them, but there are other food options at Aqueduct and Belmont and not just burgers, hot dogs and chicken fingers.

The only thing I will say about the casual fan thing is that yes, racing should be trying to get them involved. But horse racing is different than say football or baseball. Those sports need the fan to come out because they depend on the profit from the overpriced beer, souvenirs, etc. Racing depends on gambling dollars.

Absolutely racing depends on gambling dollars; no question. But if racing decides it just needs gambling dollars, there's no reason to worry about track attendance, because now that you can gamble from your living room, why even bother going to the track? If going to the track is to be promoted as a worthwhile way to spend the day, racing must work to attract more than just the serious bettors. Because handicapping a race is a lot harder than feeding quarters into a slot machine, and you don't get any of the satisfaction of blinking lights and pinging noises. (pause for sarcasm moment, as I hate slots)

The other food options take a while to find at Belmont and AQ, and they're still not very good. Well, okay, the buffet at AQ is pretty darn decent, but it's pricey and on the third floor and then it's not convenient to go back down to watch the races in the open air. Food and stuff to look at needs to be easy to find for the casual visitor.

You're right that racing is a different sport from any other in that it is based on gambling, and that is part of the image problem it faces- we're a Puritanical nation and vices makes us uncomfortable to talk about, much as we're all happily indulging in most of them when the minister isn't looking, so to speak. Casinos are thriving, yet I notice most of the ads for them on TV tout them as destinations, with dining, and shopping, and stuff to do besides feeding quarters into the one-armed bandits. To see an ad for them, you'd have no idea you were going there to gamble, and yet the casinos know that people, once there, are going to be gambling.

Racing used to have the gambling market to itself. Now that it doesn't, it needs to figure out a way to present itself as the most appealing gambling option to people, and that probably means expanding past "Go Baby, Go."

I had a good time yesterday until they hit the wire in the big race. Then I was virtually raped and felt used watching a rat who isn't close to being bred for the distance and was the ultimate money burner.

Now I still hate this sport because I GAMBLE. Nothing is worse from a gambling standpoint.

5/2 winning a slow classic race. It's sickening.

Glad you guys love chalk and had a good time.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I don't have the answer but it feels like educating them about the game further can only help. Horses racing longer, so people actually can follow a horses career for more than a few months will help.

There are a lot of logistical challenges facing horse racing from racing dates, calendars, simulcast pricing, rules/regs etc. yadda yadda yadda.

But, if there is one thing I've learned here at LAD is that there are lots of people out there who want to learn horse racing, who want to become involved, who want to gamble more... but they find the sport too intimidating. The language, the terms, the past performances - it's an awful lot to someone.

I'm admittedly proud about this "Beginners Wall" we put in at LAD before the meet. The folks downstairs tell me that not a day goes by where patrons aren't stopping to take a picture or look, read and learn. And most of those doing the reading are young, too. I think the response its received is a big indicator into where racing needs to focus some of its effort.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

There are a lot of logistical challenges facing horse racing from racing dates, calendars, simulcast pricing, rules/regs etc. yadda yadda yadda.

But, if there is one thing I've learned here at LAD is that there are lots of people out there who want to learn horse racing, who want to become involved, who want to gamble more... but they find the sport too intimidating. The language, the terms, the past performances - it's an awful lot to someone.

I'm admittedly proud about this "Beginners Wall" we put in at LAD before the meet. The folks downstairs tell me that not a day goes by where patrons aren't stopping to take a picture or look, read and learn. And most of those doing the reading are young, too. I think the response its received is a big indicator into where racing needs to focus some of its effort.

I think your first sentence has a lot more to do with the issues then the rest. In some areas betting on horse racing is very easy, in other areas not so much. Racing is not reaching its potential audience with modern technology and until that changes I don't see how it can grow.

It can be intimidating and the wall is great but honestly if someone has a slight interest in learning to bet horses and the internet getting the information really is not that difficult. I think it used to be much more so than today, I honestly did not learn that much in my first 10 years following the sport compared to the next 10 with the internet. One could read Andy's or Drug's articles and learn about the sport in ways that just were not available 20 years ago.

[King Glorious]

I think that what happens a lot of times is people use the wrong word in describing how they feel about something. I'm going to guess that Kasept didn't mean that the racing itself was magical. How could he? It was average at best but that doesn't mean that the whole experience itself couldn't have indeed been magical. First of all, just being in NY can make it a magical experience. I love that place. Then being there with a ton of people having a shared experience increases the enjoyment of the moment. The day went smooth, the races went smooth, the Belmont made up for its lack of quality with an entertaining finish. Overall, the day had to go as well as it could have under the circumstances and considering how many times that doesn't happen in this sport, just to have that happen has to be considered magical.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

There are a lot of logistical challenges facing horse racing from racing dates, calendars, simulcast pricing, rules/regs etc. yadda yadda yadda.

But, if there is one thing I've learned here at LAD is that there are lots of people out there who want to learn horse racing, who want to become involved, who want to gamble more... but they find the sport too intimidating. The language, the terms, the past performances - it's an awful lot to someone.

I'm admittedly proud about this "Beginners Wall" we put in at LAD before the meet. The folks downstairs tell me that not a day goes by where patrons aren't stopping to take a picture or look, read and learn. And most of those doing the reading are young, too. I think the response its received is a big indicator into where racing needs to focus some of its effort.

How is the handicapping class at BPCC coming along?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

How is the handicapping class at BPCC coming along?

Great... the goal is...

Fan -> Handicapper -> Gambler -> DT Member.

In all seriousness, the mix of students is amazing.

75-year-old lady.
30-year-old guy.

And everything in between.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

There are a lot of logistical challenges facing horse racing from racing dates, calendars, simulcast pricing, rules/regs etc. yadda yadda yadda.

But, if there is one thing I've learned here at LAD is that there are lots of people out there who want to learn horse racing, who want to become involved, who want to gamble more... but they find the sport too intimidating. The language, the terms, the past performances - it's an awful lot to someone.

I'm admittedly proud about this "Beginners Wall" we put in at LAD before the meet. The folks downstairs tell me that not a day goes by where patrons aren't stopping to take a picture or look, read and learn. And most of those doing the reading are young, too. I think the response its received is a big indicator into where racing needs to focus some of its effort.

I've been teaching my boyfriend about racing and it very hard to not overload one with information, both in analyzing form and in actually placing bets. You've put up a really great effort here.

[Calzone Lord]

Travis is all about effort. He does a very good job in a lot of areas.

[PatCummings]

Good thread and discussion.

This was my fourth Belmont in person, and second non-Triple Crown chance Belmont. In this day, when 85,000 people show up to the track, and you figure maybe 30,000 REALLY know what's going on (the class of the races, all the players in the bit races, etc)...that is a special day.

I watched races from many different places throughout the day, and a few things I noticed.

- The crowd was INTO it, and you knew most of them really didn't know what was up. Spontaneously cheering during post parades, every race went off with a magnificent degree of excitement. A TON of young people there, many enjoying the day out and the atmosphere.

- It is so much easier to be involved in the racing at Belmont than the other two TC venues, and that is so easy to see. If you are in the backyard, it's tough to avoid the paddock, and after that, you are either in the grandstand or on the apron.

- Almost all the races had very good finishes, and the crowd got into that even more.

- Steve uses the word "magical," and it is, to a degree, very understandable. There were a few times when I found myself incredibly surprised by the crescendo of excitement in the crowd. Everyone I saw really seemed to want to be there, and enjoy the day. I'll Have Another not racing may have dimmed the numbers, but tough to say many didn't walk away satisfied with the experience.

- I was walking to the paddock for the Manhattan, and the line for the ATM in the 3rd floor grandstand was literally 40 deep, when I got to the clubhouse escalator down, a different ATM line was maybe 20 deep. Maybe they were just buying drinks with that cash, but who cares.

Saratoga, Del Mar, and Keeneland have created an atmosphere of an all-day, every-day experience at their meets. Their meets are limited, festival-like experiences. They treasure fashion, partying, fun, and every time I've been there, seen scads of under 35s having a great day out - they are enjoying the full experience, and two of those tracks are actual destinations, the other being in a town built around the thoroughbred.

Every other track on this continent is up against it when creating an experience, but many tracks do it well for a day or three, and that's it. That's the hurdle.

I thought Saturday was an incredibly enjoyable day, and I found myself surprised and heartened by the experience.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Every other track on this continent is up against it when creating an experience, but many tracks do it well for a day or three, and that's it. That's the hurdle.

You need thing like Exchange betting, in-race betting, and low takeouts and you won't have any hurdles.

The true hurdle is that the public views horse racing as a "sucker" game -- and they view fans and bettors as old men with disposable time and disposable income -- a mix of degenerate gamblers and uncool well-off snobs.

The general public doesn't believe they could make any money betting horses -- and they probably don't know anyone who makes a living betting horses either.

The festive atmospheres on big racing days will always attract people who want to hang out, socialize, and drink. Serious bettors will always bet a lot more money on big racing days because overlays are easier to find.

Unstoppable U was 11/1. No horse in the entire Belmont field went off at odds higher than 27/1 -- and five horses in that field were clearly over 100/1 true odds. The people who showed up and threw money away on hopeless longshots aren't the people to go for. It's the people who don't ever show up -- but who would become very useful fans and bettors who follow the sport 7 days a week if the climate was right for them.

I did a fantasy football draft last year with 13 other guys...all in their 20's or 30's. It was just $100 to get in -- and the prize money was stinking $1,400. Everyone had laptops with them, everyone came with strategies, people bought books and made sheets for this stupid thing. I was BY FAR the least informed person in that basement. After about 12 rounds -- I didn't even know the names of any players left.

These are 13 guys that all live within about five minutes of me -- that could be serious and USEFUL horse racing fans and bettors. They're not the ones just showing up and betting $20 on Guyana Star Dweej at 23/1 odds and having a few drinks. Who cares about those people? You're simply not going to get them to follow the sport and keep coming back to the racetrack.

[Dahoss]

Yeah Travis, that wall is a great idea and you deserve to be commended for it.

If you really think about it, open up a form and pretend you have no idea how to read it. It probably looks like a different language.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's Saratoga also. The million dollar question is how to make it happen at more places. How do we convince everyone else what a great time our sport is to watch and participate in? How can we show them they are missing out if they aren't there?

I don't have the answer but it feels like educating them about the game further can only help. Horses racing longer, so people actually can follow a horses career for more than a few months will help.

There's no way to post this without sounding like a shameless self-promoter, but at least there were some efforts made with regards to educating people who were there outside of the info that can be gathered from the NYRA feed with Andy, Maggie, etc.

America's Best Racing sponsored a fan education area with Horse Player NOW, and we wound up with two sets of teams to do the kind of fan education that at least helps casual bettors feel like they aren't just randomly picking horses and betting against themselves.

One area inside for foot traffic in the plant, and another out back by the wagering pavilion, and we saw some of the same people who found us in the Preakness infield just a few weeks earlier when we hosted a tent there with the Daily Racing Form.

It's remarkable, really, just how little help many of these people need to get even the most cursory handle on things. Lots of these casual, big event, fans are sharper than I/we give them credit for, but if they don't know where to start, they're going to get lost in the shuffle. It's all about logistics and money, for sure, but I know from firsthand experience at Pimlico the last three years and at Belmont Saturday that these kind of casual bettors CAN be turned into more serious players. It's not easy, but it's possible.

It really was a great day there, and the energy was surprisingly positive given the scratch of IHA.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

There's no way to post this without sounding like a shameless self-promoter, but at least there were some efforts made with regards to educating people who were there outside of the info that can be gathered from the NYRA feed with Andy, Maggie, etc.

America's Best Racing sponsored a fan education area with Horse Player NOW, and we wound up with two sets of teams to do the kind of fan education that at least helps casual bettors feel like they aren't just randomly picking horses and betting against themselves.

One area inside for foot traffic in the plant, and another out back by the wagering pavilion, and we saw some of the same people who found us in the Preakness infield just a few weeks earlier when we hosted a tent there with the Daily Racing Form.

It's remarkable, really, just how little help many of these people need to get even the most cursory handle on things. Lots of these casual, big event, fans are sharper than I/we give them credit for, but if they don't know where to start, they're going to get lost in the shuffle. It's all about logistics and money, for sure, but I know from firsthand experience at Pimlico the last three years and at Belmont Saturday that these kind of casual bettors CAN be turned into more serious players. It's not easy, but it's possible.

It really was a great day there, and the energy was surprisingly positive given the scratch of IHA.

I saw a video of some of the work you did and it was great stuff. You should be shamelessly self promoting it, because it's a great idea.

Totally agree with what you have said here. Teach them...and they are much more likely to come back.

[Sightseek]

Did anyone else hear the Elliot in the Morning show in the DC area today?

It was painful to listen to them talk about horseracing and it was clear that he had been reading the NY Times articles and unfortunately his trips to Belmont Park on a weekday, and Pimlico during the Preakness, didn't help any to form a more positive opinion. It went far beyond doped and broken down horses -- the idea that all tracks are dirty, the patrons are drugged degenerates, the game robs people etc. A lot of my friends ride horses and have seen the "thrown away" thoroughbred and unfortunately that is the image that they base the entire industry on. The game needs a major image rehaul and is doing a terrible job of getting the entire story out. Our own instruments of exposing people to the game are even working against us...was it necessary for NBC to reshow and isolate on Giant Ryan breaking down? Or the tracks that think they are doing a service by providing 3 or 4 horses by their on-track experts -- what does that provide? A quick way to lose money is what is provides. Honestly, figuring out who the best horse is is pretty easy -- it's figuring out how to use that horse to make good money is what is going to attract people.