PRX up Cotillion to $1 million; Adds to PA Derby Day card

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i really and truly wish that tracks would work together more to come up with a more cohesive schedule of racing. i feel that it would help the product as a whole. too often tracks look at other tracks as competition, rather than recognizing they should be working together to create a stronger sport, and look at other forms of entertainment as the real competition.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

True. You would think that the east coast tracks could at least work together to make some sense of graded stakes at the very least. SOmetimes they react on their own and adjust schedules but a wholescale approach would make a lot more sense and would lead to better racing overall. Of course if the top horses werent all concentrated in just a few barns things would be a lot more competitive as well.

They can't even come together to stagger the start times of their own races so they don't overlap with other tracks. Now you want them to come together to schedule/re-schedule what is most likely each tracks signature event? Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea. There are so many things that the sport could do with creating an entire series for 3 year olds that goes for most of the year. Unfortunately this sport we love lacks common sense most of the time.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

They can't even come together to stagger the start times of their own races so they don't overlap with other tracks. Now you want them to come together to schedule/re-schedule what is most likely each tracks signature event? Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea. There are so many things that the sport could do with creating an entire series for 3 year olds that goes for most of the year. Unfortunately this sport we love lacks common sense most of the time.

I agree, but some strides have been made recently (on the post time front).

However, it's a little shocking that Monmouth has opted to keep their 12:50 PM EDT post time even after Belmont moved theirs up to 12:50 as well. That should really help their handle on races 1-4.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree, but some strides have been made recently (on the post time front).

However, it's a little shocking that Monmouth has opted to keep their 12:50 PM EDT post time even after Belmont moved theirs up to 12:50 as well. That should really help their handle on races 1-4.

Listening to Steves show last week he had a Monomouth exec stating that he welecomes the improvement of NYRA product since it is his biggest simulcast generator. And then they can't do something as basic as moving a start time forward or back 5-10 minutes?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jms62

Listening to Steves show last week he had a Monomouth exec stating that he welecomes the improvement of NYRA product since it is his biggest simulcast generator. And then they can't do something as basic as moving a start time forward or back 5-10 minutes?

Exactly.

Now, it's not a completely fair comparison because this year was Mother's Day. But, if you compare their handle from the 2nd day of the 2011 meet to the 2nd day of the 2012 meet, they were down 40% despite having a 80% increase in on-track attendance and a 13% increase in on-track handle.

Belmont was down 4% from the same date, prior year on Sunday with a 400k Pick 6 pool last year. But, if you compare Mother's Day to Mother's Day handle, they were up 14%.

Maximizing handle for a place like Monmouth should really be simple. Stay the hell away from Belmont.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Exactly.

Now, it's not a completely fair comparison because this year was Mother's Day. But, if you compare their handle from the 2nd day of the 2011 meet to the 2nd day of the 2012 meet, they were down 40% despite having a 80% increase in on-track attendance and a 13% increase in on-track handle.

Belmont was down 4% from the same date, prior year on Sunday with a 400k Pick 6 pool last year. But, if you compare Mother's Day to Mother's Day handle, they were up 14%.

Maximizing handle for a place like Monmouth should really be simple. Stay the hell away from Belmont.

This idea might be a bit radical, but if you were en exec at Monmouth, would you consider front loading the cards there? You would think that more players would take a good look and more importantly play an early pick 4 sequance when there is very limited options. Verus having this sequance late in the day and it getting lost, going against tracks like Belmont, Churchill with their Graded races and guaranteed pools.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

This idea might be a bit radical, but if you were en exec at Monmouth, would you consider front loading the cards there? You would think that more players would take a good look and more importantly play an early pick 4 sequance when there is very limited options. Verus having this sequance late in the day and it getting lost, going against tracks like Belmont, Churchill with their Graded races and guaranteed pools.

No, because then you lose the California players. Some simo facilities out there aren't even open until the 4th or 5th race of the day on an "average" day.

Just stagger the damn post times, idiots!

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree, but some strides have been made recently (on the post time front).

However, it's a little shocking that Monmouth has opted to keep their 12:50 PM EDT post time even after Belmont moved theirs up to 12:50 as well. That should really help their handle on races 1-4.

I think it would make sense for Monmouth to move up the opener to 12:15. They would probably have better luck bumping heads versus Parx for 45 minutes versus going head to head against Belmont. That start would also enable them to start their early pick 4, even before Belmont runs their opener.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think it would make sense for Monmouth to move up the opener to 12:15. They would probably have better luck bumping heads versus Parx for 45 minutes versus going head to head against Belmont. That start would also enable them to start their early pick 4, even before Belmont runs their opener.

I agree. Most racetrack operators can learn a lesson from the GM at Tampa Bay Downs. His work on their takeout aside, he is absolutely masterful when it comes to having perfect post times. He might have a field sit at the gate for a minute or two to let another race go official or simply to get more in the pool. He will short post some crappier races to get more for a larger field and/or turf race. Most importantly, his first post is not static. The Tampa guys on the board can attest to it better than me, but it seemed like it could range from 12:27 to 12:40 depending on what he knew he'd encounter later in the day.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think it would make sense for Monmouth to move up the opener to 12:15. They would probably have better luck bumping heads versus Parx for 45 minutes versus going head to head against Belmont. That start would also enable them to start their early pick 4, even before Belmont runs their opener.

Or 12:30 or 1:00

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

They can't even come together to stagger the start times of their own races so they don't overlap with other tracks. Now you want them to come together to schedule/re-schedule what is most likely each tracks signature event? Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea. There are so many things that the sport could do with creating an entire series for 3 year olds that goes for most of the year. Unfortunately this sport we love lacks common sense most of the time.

it really is a shame that this sport is so determined to continue to shoot itself in the foot. so many things they could do differently...and yet, they don't. it's really crazy.
if they would all work to put together a better product, by better scheduling of races along with post times, i just wonder what they could accomplish.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

They can't even come together to stagger the start times of their own races so they don't overlap with other tracks. Now you want them to come together to schedule/re-schedule what is most likely each tracks signature event? Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea. There are so many things that the sport could do with creating an entire series for 3 year olds that goes for most of the year. Unfortunately this sport we love lacks common sense most of the time.

When I asked I was told that the reason that Monmouth isnt changing its post time which is that same as Belmonts is that they run races with less time between and only the first race is affected. True story...

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

When I asked I was told that the reason that Monmouth isnt changing its post time which is that same as Belmonts is that they run races with less time between and only the first race is affected. True story...

Yeah, it's hard.

Belmont takes a long time between races. Very long. And for the rest of us, it sort of makes it tough. We could take as long, but it's really overkill for smaller tracks. Thus we go shorter and inevitably we overlap with them. The trick is timing it.

At LAD, I put our first few races w/Belmont and just told the racing office they have no shot of handling well, so they now put our smallest fields of the day early.

That said, when I'm looking at the tote feed that indicates all of the post times, I always can't help but say to myself, "Wow, there is simply too much racing going on."

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Yeah, it's hard.

Belmont takes a long time between races. Very long. And for the rest of us, it sort of makes it tough. We could take as long, but it's really overkill for smaller tracks. Thus we go shorter and inevitably we overlap with them. The trick is timing it.

At LAD, I put our first few races w/Belmont and just told the racing office they have no shot of handling well, so they now put our smallest fields of the day early.

That said, when I'm looking at the tote feed that indicates all of the post times, I always can't help but say to myself, "Wow, there is simply too much racing going on."

Travis, so you are almost dealing with the same problem as Monmouth. You are saving your better races for later in the day, but isn't that when tracks like Belmont are running sequances with gaurenteed pools that include stakes/graded stakes races? How can you compete with that? Not to mention the Cali tracks are starting their cards. That's why I think it's imperative for tracks like Monmouth to start their action earlier and get the money into their pools before the bigger tracks start.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Travis, so you are almost dealing with the same problem as Monmouth. You are saving your better races for later in the day, but isn't that when tracks like Belmont are running sequances with gaurenteed pools that include stakes/graded stakes races? How can you compete with that? Not to mention the Cali tracks are starting their cards. That's why I think it's imperative for tracks like Monmouth to start their action earlier and get the money into their pools before the bigger tracks start.

The guaranteed pool stuff is sort of a non-starter. As the day progresses, tracks close (Calder, Parx etc.) and more money is available in the marketplace and as long as we're off those races (at least 12 minutes after the race, or 5-8 minutes before), we don't feel the pinch.

And for the same reasons you mentioned, when California starts to ramp-up, even more money enters the marketplace.

It's not unusual for our last four races to average 2.5-3x (or more) the handle vs. our earlier races on the card. That said, a small field kills it no matter what. And while everyone wishes it could go perfectly, delays can screw-up the best made plans at anytime.

[Cannon Shell]

Monmouth changed its 1st race post time to 12:45 starting Friday btw