Great Piece: Equine Athlete Psychology

[Danzig]

does this guy also sell pap sheets?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

does this guy also sell pap sheets?

It's probably pretty useful for smears.

[clambeau]

unless you're reading something other than the link I posted, I don't think this guy is telling you who's gonna win...he's just putting into words what he's been observing in the Derby horses previous races. I'll read the darn thing again but I still wont see him giving anyone the Derby winner....

He's not charging anything for his opinion for cryin out loud.....cheez!!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by clambeau

unless you're reading something other than the link I posted, I don't think this guy is telling you who's gonna win...he's just putting into words what he's been observing in the Derby horses previous races. I'll read the darn thing again but I still wont see him giving anyone the Derby winner....

He's not charging anything for his opinion for cryin out loud.....cheez!!

Good grief. This isn't magic. All he's doing is accurately describing normal herd horse behaviour, that jockeys and trainers and exercise riders have known for years: some horses panic when surrounded. Some are aggressive and like to intimidate. Some won't run on out in front by themselves. Some don't like other horses coming up behind. Some stick to a buddy like glue and won't go ahead themselves. Some mentally dominate a challenger when they run alongside it. It's the very same physical things we do to horses, with our body motion, to gain dominance when we break them in a round pen when they are young.

It's no different than someone watching horses work in the am, and interpreting "how" the horse was feeling and acting during the work (aside from the time)

If someone has never ridden or trained horses, and doesn't know how horses think and act, I can see how it would be impossible to figure out what the guy was talking about.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good grief. This isn't magic. All he's doing is accurately describing normal herd horse behaviour, that jockeys and trainers and exercise riders have known for years: some horses panic when surrounded. Some are aggressive and like to intimidate. Some won't run on out in front by themselves. Some don't like other horses coming up behind. Some stick to a buddy like glue and won't go ahead themselves. Some mentally dominate a challenger when they run alongside it. It's the very same physical things we do to horses, with our body motion, to gain dominance when we break them in a round pen when they are young.

It's no different than someone watching horses work in the am, and interpreting "how" the horse was feeling and acting during the work (aside from the time)

If someone has never ridden or trained horses, and doesn't know how horses think and act, I can see how it would be impossible to figure out what the guy was talking about.

In all seriousness, how can he differentiate between Bodemeister and Trinniberg's herd behavior based on their virtually identical running style thus far?

What I mean to ask is since they have the same style, how come they don't have different psych profiles?

It seems like nonsense to me.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

In all seriousness, how can he differentiate between Bodemeister and Trinniberg's herd behavior based on their virtually identical running style thus far?

What I mean to ask is since they have the same style, how come they don't have different psych profiles?

It seems like nonsense to me.

Can you copy here what he wrote about those two?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can you copy here what he wrote about those two?

Yes, as can you. I'll do it, even though I know you are baiting me and think you'll make me look more foolish than I already am.

Trinniberg:

Trinniberg shows no interest at all in the group dynamic, and that could be a problem in a 20-horse field. He runs as fast as he can for as long as he can. He shows very little interpretation of stimulus behind him or even to the side.

I don’t see any indicators that he has enough of a group dynamic to manage a herd over a distance. This is not a drag race. This is a distance race.

Bodemeister:

Bodemeister’s patterns of motion are completely different than any horse in this field or any horse I’ve seen so far. His comfort zone is being alone. That’s not normal in horses.

His sweet spot is a forward distance focus, and he doesn’t need a target. His target is open space. That’s where he does his best. He has a fascinating emotional conformation profile. It’s like he’s looking forever in front of him, yet he has very good stimulus interpretation around him. He engages quickly.

Bodemeister will not be as prone to individual battles for space as some of these other horses. He doesn’t care. He just wants to be free of all of it, and his comfort zone is to move forward and away. Bodemeister knows what is behind him, but he doesn’t lock onto it.

At this point in his development, I think Bodemeister is better at being chased than he is at chasing or moving in a group. Being pushed from behind made him go faster in Arkansas. That puts him somewhat at the mercy of race dynamics. To win this Derby, I think he will have to get out and go. I would not want to see him tangled up in Derby traffic competing for space. That’s not his sweet spot psychologically.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yes, as can you. I'll do it, even though I know you are baiting me and think you'll make me look more foolish than I already am.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know horses personally, how they think.

Others familiar with horses can chime in with their interpretation of what the guy is saying about these two.

Horses are herd animals. They (generally) have a pecking order, and take their cues on how to act, what order to drink, or who eats first, or who runs in the front, from physical intimidation of their space (rarely fighting) by higher-ups. There are a few leaders (who own their space and move other horses out of it), and most are followers (who move when told). A herd survives danger when it works together and sticks together and follows the leader's instructions. Safety in numbers.

I enter a stall with a strange horse to do something to it in the stall, I take it's halter and move it around in a circle in the stall - I've made the horse move out of my way, at my whim, away from my space (as a more dominant horse would do) and hopefully that puts me in charge as I control the stall space and where the horse moves (so I don't get squashed). Same thing in a round pen - you stand up straight and walk toward the horses hindquarters, that "pushes" the horse away from you. You control the space. You step in towards the front of the circling horse, he stops and respects your space. Won't enter it.

So that's what horses are doing running in a herd: some are scared, some pal up with a buddy and won't move away, some are dominant, some will willingly engage in a fight of speed and body slam intimidation to own the space, same freak and shrink if another horse looks at them with intimidation, some just get along, follow the rules and are good soldiers following the herd.

Trinniberg shows no interest at all in the group dynamic, and that could be a problem in a 20-horse field. He runs as fast as he can for as long as he can. He shows very little interpretation of stimulus behind him or even to the side.

I don’t see any indicators that he has enough of a group dynamic to manage a herd over a distance. This is not a drag race. This is a distance race.

The above strikes me as a non-thinking animal, who isn't aware of what's happening around him with the other horses. He's just in flight mode (but not necessarily scared) running until he drops. No desire to pass other horses, run with other horses, unawares of what is happening and other horses place in the herd. Just running until he can't go any more, regardless of what other horses are doing. Not pushing anyone out of his way, not being pushed because he's clueless. Head down, just doin' his thing, oblivious.

Bodemeister’s patterns of motion are completely different than any horse in this field or any horse I’ve seen so far. His comfort zone is being alone. That’s not normal in horses.

His sweet spot is a forward distance focus, and he doesn’t need a target. His target is open space. That’s where he does his best. He has a fascinating emotional conformation profile. It’s like he’s looking forever in front of him, yet he has very good stimulus interpretation around him. He engages quickly.

Bodemeister will not be as prone to individual battles for space as some of these other horses. He doesn’t care. He just wants to be free of all of it, and his comfort zone is to move forward and away. Bodemeister knows what is behind him, but he doesn’t lock onto it.

At this point in his development, I think Bodemeister is better at being chased than he is at chasing or moving in a group. Being pushed from behind made him go faster in Arkansas. That puts him somewhat at the mercy of race dynamics. To win this Derby, I think he will have to get out and go. I would not want to see him tangled up in Derby traffic competing for space. That’s not his sweet spot psychologically.

Horses are not loners - they are safer and more comfortable in the pack. This horse is a confident loner - weird in a horse - but is aware of what the others are doing around him. He's not interested in dominance battles, shoulder to shoulder - if a horse approaches from behind to engage him in battle, he'll just run away out front, confident and happy to be alone. He's not running "scared" away from the scary noise of the herd.

If he could get loose on the lead, at a decent pace (if there were no other speeds), he could happily wire, quite content to not be part of the herd, and running away if a closer came to him.

A "target" is that some horses like to see a target horse out front, something to catch and run down and pass.

[clambeau]

I still think it was an interesting study.....It should have come with a warning that it may offend some people who don't believe horses have a brain...

To those of you who think the whole thing is absurd...don't read it and try and forget what you read if you did read it (or had someone read it to you).

It'll be alright...you can just watch the Chicklets run around....you'll be fine.

[Indian Charlie]

OMG.

Where in the hell did I even come close to implying horses don't have brains? Maybe you are inferring from my posts that you don't have one, but that's on you.

What I am saying is that this guy is fraudulent, whether or not he has something to sell, or will have something to sell in the future. His comments are gibberish, and for whatever reason, you find it easy to suspend all critical thought when reading him.