Occupy Wall Street

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

How many engineers laid off the las 10 years? My guess millions. It is clear where you stand on the issues and it is to be expected from someone in an industry that is known to use and abuse cheap undocumented foriegn labor. And save us the no American wants it bull. There would be at the right price. Funny how alot of you uber conseratives are all about the free markets except the market for thier own employees.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44981628

'Many of the Americans who have ventured out into the fields to pick crops have quit after a single day, telling farmers the work is too hard and not worth the pay.'



...jms, you obviously wouldn't shun a job because it's your belief no one would. that's simply not the case. undocumented workers come here for jobs that are available, at pay that's better than they can get elsewhere. many who live here on the other hand think such work is demeaning-which is why the jobs are available in the first place.
why do you think there really hasn't been anything done to stem the tide of illegals? i guarantee you we could stop it. raids are performed-on places paying under the table, thus no money to the feds. the ones who pay, and send money for ss-they don't get raided.

[dino]

Now just what does Occupy Wall Street have to do with unemployment? If it had anything to do with unemployment they wouldn't be protesting because it would make thier Liberal/Socialist savior look bad.
No only did the BILLIONS in job creation money not create any jobs but he also gave BILLIONS to Wall Street to bail them out.
Just curious if there is anyone out there that actually things this bum has done a good job?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dino

Now just what does Occupy Wall Street have to do with unemployment? If it had anything to do with unemployment they wouldn't be protesting because it would make thier Liberal/Socialist savior look bad.
No only did the BILLIONS in job creation money not create any jobs but he also gave BILLIONS to Wall Street to bail them out.
Just curious if there is anyone out there that actually things this bum has done a good job?

He who? George Bush who started the whole bail out Wallstreet fiasco? To answer your question vis a vis Obama. I think he has done an awful job. I expected more yet got another career politician.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44981628

'Many of the Americans who have ventured out into the fields to pick crops have quit after a single day, telling farmers the work is too hard and not worth the pay.'



...jms, you obviously wouldn't shun a job because it's your belief no one would. that's simply not the case. undocumented workers come here for jobs that are available, at pay that's better than they can get elsewhere. many who live here on the other hand think such work is demeaning-which is why the jobs are available in the first place.
why do you think there really hasn't been anything done to stem the tide of illegals? i guarantee you we could stop it. raids are performed-on places paying under the table, thus no money to the feds. the ones who pay, and send money for ss-they don't get raided.

I am not saying that. I am saying that the likes of those uber conservatives crying free market have no problem taking advantage of H1B's and using illegals vs paying a rate that would attract American Citizens. Free Market only when it suits them , eventually someone will take the job and it wouldn't be at the absurd levels quoted above by our resident Economist.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

I am not saying that. I am saying that the likes of those uber conservatives crying free market have no problem taking advantage of H1B's and using illegals vs paying a rate that would attract American Citizens. Free Market only when it suits them , eventually someone will take the job and it wouldn't be at the absurd levels quoted above by our resident Economist.

are you saying only hib's work at the track? i don't think so. but anyone who takes that job is ok, but if an hib, they're being taken advantage of? no, not at all. it's a better situation than at home, which is why they do it. they aren't forced to accept those jobs.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

are you saying only hib's work at the track? i don't think so. but anyone who takes that job is ok, but if an hib, they're being taken advantage of? no, not at all. it's a better situation than at home, which is why they do it. they aren't forced to accept those jobs.

Please show me where I said that??? Otherwise cut the bull with trying to frame my post to something other that supports your response. Thank you in advance.

So here is the deal. When someone gets an H1B visa they are allowed ONLY to work for their sponsor. Their only option is to leave, they are not free to find a company that will pay them more. They have ZERO bargining power. Is That a Free Market? So American labor forced to compete with indentured servitude. Wouldn't the removal of that restriction level the playing field a bit? And the if they don't like it leave response doesn't address the issue and certainly won't get us out of this depression.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Please show me where I said that??? Otherwise cut the bull with trying to frame my post to something other that supports your response. Thank you in advance.

So here is the deal. When someone gets an H1B visa they are allowed ONLY to work for their sponsor. Their only option is to leave, they are not free to find a company that will pay them more. They have ZERO bargining power. Is That a Free Market? So American labor forced to compete with indentured servitude. Wouldn't the removal of that restriction level the playing field a bit? And the if they don't like it leave response doesn't address the issue and certainly won't get us out of this depression.

no need to get snarky. i quoted your post, above, where you said people have no issue with taking advantage of h1b's. i've been to the backside of tracks, it was a cross section of people, just like anywhere else.

h1b's make the choice they make; it's not forced on them. many come here because it's better than where they are, they make more money here than where they are. they don't come here as indentured servants-that's ridiculous. obviously if it wasn't worth their while, they wouldn't come!
everything is based on supply and demand. if the money offered isn't enough, people don't take the offer. the offer rises. that's generally how things work-whereas in selling products, you state a price, if no takers you lower it.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no need to get snarky. i quoted your post, above, where you said people have no issue with taking advantage of h1b's. i've been to the backside of tracks, it was a cross section of people, just like anywhere else.

h1b's make the choice they make; it's not forced on them. many come here because it's better than where they are, they make more money here than where they are. they don't come here as indentured servants-that's ridiculous. obviously if it wasn't worth their while, they wouldn't come!
everything is based on supply and demand. if the money offered isn't enough, people don't take the offer. the offer rises. that's generally how things work-whereas in selling products, you state a price, if no takers you lower it.

Sorry if you thought I was Snarky but that is a pet peeve of mine. You totally didn't address the key part of my point. The indentured servitude, "so are you saying" it is fine for Americans to compete agains Quasi-Slave labor

[Danzig]

i guess i didn't address the point, because i'm not getting the point. you see it as forced labor, or indentured labor, i don't.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

I am not saying that. I am saying that the likes of those uber conservatives crying free market have no problem taking advantage of H1B's and using illegals vs paying a rate that would attract American Citizens. Free Market only when it suits them , eventually someone will take the job and it wouldn't be at the absurd levels quoted above by our resident Economist.

Free market is at work. We find workers who are willing to work for the wages given. Pretty simple. The idea that because an employee is on a worker program or is undocumented they are abused or underpaid is typical liberal bullshit. My grooms make $500-700 per week depending on how many horses they care for. Riders between $700-1000 a week. Hotwalkers who only work 4-5 hours a day make $250 and are paid for any extra's they do. They are provided housing. I pay for their cable. They get vacations. They get bonuses when their horses hit the board. My assistants get rent checks. At most tracks they are provided some form of medical and dental coverage via the HBPA. They are covered against workplace injury by workmans compensation insurance. They can file for unemployment if they are laid off. What Danzig said was right, most Americans wont do this work because its too hard, too early, too hot, too cold, etc. The only Americans tht wind up on the backside are those who wnt to be trainers or those with no other real options.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Free market is at work. We find workers who are willing to work for the wages given. Pretty simple. The idea that because an employee is on a worker program or is undocumented they are abused or underpaid is typical liberal bullshit. My grooms make $500-700 per week depending on how many horses they care for. Riders between $700-1000 a week. Hotwalkers who only work 4-5 hours a day make $250 and are paid for any extra's they do. They are provided housing. I pay for their cable. They get vacations. They get bonuses when their horses hit the board. My assistants get rent checks. At most tracks they are provided some form of medical and dental coverage via the HBPA. They are covered against workplace injury by workmans compensation insurance. They can file for unemployment if they are laid off. What Danzig said was right, most Americans wont do this work because its too hard, too early, too hot, too cold, etc. The only Americans tht wind up on the backside are those who wnt to be trainers or those with no other real options.

You are really generous and everything you say is just great. You can pay them a million bucks however if their options are work for you as their sponsor or go home then it is not a free market and I will argue that point until put me in the ground.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

You are really generous and everything you say is just great. You can pay them a million bucks however if their options are work for you as their sponsor or go home then it is not a free market and I will argue that point until put me in the ground.

The terms are spelled out prior to them coming. I pay people by the amount of work done and the quality of that work regardless of their status as a H1B worker or not.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The terms are spelled out prior to them coming. I pay people by the amount of work done and the quality of that work regardless of their status as a H1B worker or not.

You are a wonderful human being however my point is made. High Tech industry needs the likes of you.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

You are really generous and everything you say is just great. You can pay them a million bucks however if their options are work for you as their sponsor or go home then it is not a free market and I will argue that point until put me in the ground.

all they have to do is have a sponsor. it's not as tho if they don't have one, they can never get another. i'd imagine they have to have a sponsor as a way to keep track of a temporary visitor/employee. i'd think that would be an INS rule, not an employer rule. it's the govt's job to keep track of workers from other countries. and surely different offers are there for people to apply, choose from, etc?

btw, i find the now missing posts that were quoted by others that you wrote to be out of line. there's a difference between talking about a subject, and attacking someone personally. chuck didn't create the H1B program. if you don't like the program, take it up with the people who created it or operate it, that can amend it. i've visited chuck, more than once, at various barns in several states. his operation seems top notch from what i've seen fwiw.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

all they have to do is have a sponsor. it's not as tho if they don't have one, they can never get another. i'd imagine they have to have a sponsor as a way to keep track of a temporary visitor/employee. i'd think that would be an INS rule, not an employer rule. it's the govt's job to keep track of workers from other countries. and surely different offers are there for people to apply, choose from, etc?

btw, i find the now missing posts that were quoted by others that you wrote to be out of line. there's a difference between talking about a subject, and attacking someone personally. chuck didn't create the H1B program. if you don't like the program, take it up with the people who created it or operate it, that can amend it. i've visited chuck, more than once, at various barns in several states. his operation seems top notch from what i've seen fwiw.

Listen the first part of your post shows that you have no idea whatsoever about the process. You are posting to a process as you would like it to be. When you come over on an H1B visa you are tied to the company that sponsors you for 6 years. You cannot go elsewhere, you cannot go home and start the process again . For 6 years its work for the company that sponsers you or go home.

As to part 2, there are no missing posts and if Chuck calls me a know nothing twit I will very well respond in like so if you don't like it GFYS and put me on Ignore. Chuck took a personal shot at me, I took one back in my mind its over. If he were here I'd buy him a beer. The only person I really disliked on these boards is Nascar and he is gone.

Again I never said anything about Chucks operation I was providing links to the industry in general and if you tell me that there isn't H1B abuse in the industry aside from Chucks barn then I will tell you are full of shi*T.

I think for your own peace of mind you need to put me on ignore. You either read something entirely different in my posts, reply to something that you know nothing about yet portray it as if it exists as you think it does, try and put words in my mouth with the "did you mean ****" , and then cite to "missing" posts to come to a conclusion based upon others responses to posts that do exist Are you having a bad day or what?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Listen the first part of your post shows that you have no idea whatsoever about the process. You are posting to a process as you would like it to be. When you come over on an H1B visa you are tied to the company that sponsors you for 6 years. You cannot go elsewhere, you cannot go home and start the process again . For 6 years its work for the company that sponsers you or go home.

As to part 2, there are no missing posts and if Chuck calls me a know nothing twit I will very well respond in like so if you don't like it GFYS and put me on Ignore. Chuck took a personal shot at me, I took one back in my mind its over. If he were here I'd buy him a beer. The only person I really disliked on these boards is Nascar and he is gone.

Again I never said anything about Chucks operation I was providing links to the industry in general and if you tell me that there isn't H1B abuse in the industry aside from Chucks barn then I will tell you are full of shi*T.

I think for your own peace of mind you need to put me on ignore. You either read something entirely different in my posts, reply to something that you know nothing about yet portray it as if it exists as you think it does, try and put words in my mouth with the "did you mean ****" , and then cite to "missing" posts to come to a conclusion based upon others responses to posts that do exist Are you having a bad day or what?

Actually you took the first shot with your thinly veiled insinuations and stereotyping. The only reason I bother to post in the political threads is to counter Riot's nonsense.

I think that the terms are 3 years with a possibility to extend to 6. And you can transfer employers on an H1b visa.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Listen the first part of your post shows that you have no idea whatsoever about the process. You are posting to a process as you would like it to be. When you come over on an H1B visa you are tied to the company that sponsors you for 6 years. You cannot go elsewhere, you cannot go home and start the process again . For 6 years its work for the company that sponsers you or go home.

As to part 2, there are no missing posts and if Chuck calls me a know nothing twit I will very well respond in like so if you don't like it GFYS and put me on Ignore. Chuck took a personal shot at me, I took one back in my mind its over. If he were here I'd buy him a beer. The only person I really disliked on these boards is Nascar and he is gone.

Again I never said anything about Chucks operation I was providing links to the industry in general and if you tell me that there isn't H1B abuse in the industry aside from Chucks barn then I will tell you are full of shi*T.

I think for your own peace of mind you need to put me on ignore. You either read something entirely different in my posts, reply to something that you know nothing about yet portray it as if it exists as you think it does, try and put words in my mouth with the "did you mean ****" , and then cite to "missing" posts to come to a conclusion based upon others responses to posts that do exist Are you having a bad day or what?

i was talking about posts where you are quoted, but your posts aren't in the thread. i guess someone took them down? there are several posts above where you are quoted, but your original is nowhere to be seen.
at any rate, i'm a big girl. i get that people don't always agree with others. what i don't get is that some people get pretty dammed crappy about things when they are an opposite side of someone else. and no, i'm not having a bad day-are you?

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Free market is at work. We find workers who are willing to work for the wages given. Pretty simple. The idea that because an employee is on a worker program or is undocumented they are abused or underpaid is typical liberal bullshit. My grooms make $500-700 per week depending on how many horses they care for. Riders between $700-1000 a week. Hotwalkers who only work 4-5 hours a day make $250 and are paid for any extra's they do. They are provided housing. I pay for their cable. They get vacations. They get bonuses when their horses hit the board. My assistants get rent checks. At most tracks they are provided some form of medical and dental coverage via the HBPA. They are covered against workplace injury by workmans compensation insurance. They can file for unemployment if they are laid off. What Danzig said was right, most Americans wont do this work because its too hard, too early, too hot, too cold, etc. The only Americans tht wind up on the backside are those who wnt to be trainers or those with no other real options.

Do you claim ownership?


Yes or no.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by clyde

Do you claim ownership?


Yes or no.

You can claim me cheap.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You can claim me cheap.

Oh boy.




You could get Honula for that high end groom rate...bet you could.