i thought cutting was the goal?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i feel that if they were able to get obamacare passed, they left plenty undone. i wonder if that was the deal? the reps allowed that to pass, at the expense of other things the dems wanted. wouldn't surprise me a bit to know that backdoor deals like that happen.

Remember that in the House, all Republicans and 34 Dems voted against it (but it still passed); but in the Senate, a 60 vote supermajority was needed, and all 40 Republicans voting against it, and the Independents joining the Dems to pass it with the 60 supermajority (a supermajority isn't needed for regular bills in normal times, but the Republicans were obstructing every senate vote)

Joe Leibermann at the last minute voted for it, passing it.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Remember that in the House, all Republicans and 34 Dems voted against it (but it still passed); but in the Senate, a 60 vote supermajority was needed, and all 40 Republicans voting against it, and the Independents joining the Dems to pass it with the 60 supermajority (a supermajority isn't needed for regular bills in normal times, but the Republicans were obstructing every senate vote)

Joe Leibermann at the last minute voted for it, passing it.

its was actually the unprecedented use of the Slaughter rule that got obamacare passed. very very shady

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

its was actually the unprecedented use of the Slaughter rule that got obamacare passed. very very shady

No. It was not "deemed passed". It was voted upon in a regular up and down vote in the House, and passed 219-212.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Remember that in the House, all Republicans and 34 Dems voted against it (but it still passed); but in the Senate, a 60 vote supermajority was needed, and all 40 Republicans voting against it, and the Independents joining the Dems to pass it with the 60 supermajority (a supermajority isn't needed for regular bills in normal times, but the Republicans were obstructing every senate vote)

Joe Leibermann at the last minute voted for it, passing it.

and like i said above, if that bill that so many were against could pass, so could other democrat measures. that's one of the reasons many in his own party are unhappy with obama; he had an opportunity to do more, and he squandered it. because he didn't want to do too much, and possibly lose seats he tried to play it safe and it cost him.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and like i said above, if that bill that so many were against could pass, so could other democrat measures. that's one of the reasons many in his own party are unhappy with obama; he had an opportunity to do more, and he squandered it. because he didn't want to do too much, and possibly lose seats he tried to play it safe and it cost him.

Except for the 154 times the Senate Republican minority prevented passage of Democratic bills due to invoking a supermajority. I don't know what you expected the Dems "could have done" when they needed 60 votes for routine matters due to the GOP forcing a supermajority need, and they only had 58 Senators?

Yes, the progressive wing of the Democratic party is unhappy with Obama, because he's not a "left liberal socialist". He's quite centrist.

"Do more" for them would have been to pass single payer healthcare: like that would have happened, when all they could barely pass were the basic insurance reforms of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act! ("Obamacare")

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Except for the 154 times the Senate Republican minority prevented passage of Democratic bills due to invoking a supermajority. I don't know what you expected the Dems "could have done" when they needed 60 votes for routine matters due to the GOP forcing a supermajority need, and they only had 58 Senators?

Yes, the progressive wing of the Democratic party is unhappy with Obama, because he's not a "left liberal socialist". He's quite centrist.

"Do more" for them would have been to pass single payer healthcare: like that would have happened, when all they could barely pass were the basic insurance reforms of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act! ("Obamacare")

i just know that i've heard plenty of 'he could have done more' talk-tavis smiley immediately comes to mind. seems like there was a lot of excitement about them having both houses and the exec, and there's a lot of feeling that opportunities were squandered.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i just know that i've heard plenty of 'he could have done more' talk-tavis smiley immediately comes to mind. seems like there was a lot of excitement about them having both houses and the exec, and there's a lot of feeling that opportunities were squandered.

The real far left progressives wanted single payer healthcare, immediate withdrawal from all wars, immediate closure of Guantanamo, immediately end DADT, etc.

And a pony.

A bit unrealistic. Turns out the President wasn't willing to say, "Screw you, Republicans, we'll just completely ignore you and shove what we want down your throat" and yeah, there was a faction of his party were mad about that.

Those same folks just held a two-day blogosphere "Obamahatefest" about what they thought was going on within the deficit ceiling talks. They all shut up starting Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday.

[Danzig]

but didn't obama promise to get us out of the wars, to close gitmo, to get rid of dadt? maybe that's why they're mad, none of that has happened.

i expect dadt is just a matter of time, but i think he could have made a clean cut with that.
i believe panetta is in iraq, trying to get permission to keep troops in iraq.
gitmo-not going to happen. the house military appropriations bill would indicate there are no changes imminent in afganistan/iraq.

i can see why some folks would be sore.

as for spending, the budgets for most, if not all agencies increased when obama took office. so much for cutting spending. the commission he formed to find ways to cut costs-ignored.

a lot of talk-not much action.


at any rate, i'm not happy with the lot of them. i don't like the fact that the reps are doing what they can to keep obama from being re-elected, rather than doing what's right. i don't like the far righters trying to impose their religious zeal on others. i really don't like that the real problems we're facing are being ignored for the sake of politics. it's a disgrace.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

... a lot of talk-not much action.

No new President can do everything all at once by snapping one's fingers. He's certainly not the first president to have campaign promises come up against reality. Especially when the opposition party leader stated publicly that their legislative goal is to prevent this president's re-election. And their actions are proving it.

He tried to close Guantanamo, but he had to do something with the prisoners, and states refused to take them. Turning them loose wasn't an option. What is he supposed to do there?

Iraq - he drew down 100,000 troops this past year. We should be out end of year (consider that we are still in Japan, Germany, etc) Yes, Iraq may ask for 10,000 to stay, we don't know what will happen with that yet. Afghanistan - he promised to put the focus of troops in there, increase them, and he did. And he got Osama bin Laden. Now he's drawing down there, too.

Obama has kept far more promises than he's broken (see PolitFact) and has quite a noteable bit of accomplishment to his name. Obama's nowhere near close to "failure". That's absurd. He has one of the most accomplished (as far as legislative successes) modern Presidencies. Against one of the most dedicated political obstructionist opposition parties.

at any rate, i'm not happy with the lot of them. i don't like the fact that the reps are doing what they can to keep obama from being re-elected, rather than doing what's right. i don't like the far righters trying to impose their religious zeal on others. i really don't like that the real problems we're facing are being ignored for the sake of politics. it's a disgrace

I agree with that part completely.

EAT YOUR DAMN PEAS!