First Dude- Grade 1 winner

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The light has gone on this year with First Dude because he won the stake at Churchill by a nose over Regal Ransom and Equestrio (I think they are still running in the Foster) and because he was the last horse standing in the Hollywood Gold Cup, again, by a nose? Sorry, I can't agree.

I think he's been helped by facing far inferior horses this year as opposed to last year.

Last year he was getting outrun by Fly Down, Afleet Express, Morning Line, Lookin at Lucky, etc. He hasn't faced anyone like that this year.

Last year, he was losing. This year, he is winning. You make it seem like Fly Down, Afleet Express, Lookin at Lucky, and Morning Line were some kind of murders row. They weren't. I don't think they were better than what he's facing now and if they were, they certainly weren't far superior. Last year, he was good enough to finish a head and neck behind Fly Down, a neck behind Morning Line, and 3/4 behind Lucky so I wouldn't say they were far superior to him. Looked to me like he was right with them, maybe a step back and if these horses now are right with him, why aren't they also right on level with the ones from last year? To me, if you are going to say the horses last year were good, you've got to say these are too. I personally think that both groups were/are average at best and that First Dude is no better now than he was then and that it's just been an adjustment in training that has changed him from loser to winner. Now he runs all the way through instead of waiting on them, which I thought he was doing last year.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Last year, he was losing. This year, he is winning. You make it seem like Fly Down, Afleet Express, Lookin at Lucky, and Morning Line were some kind of murders row. They weren't. I don't think they were better than what he's facing now and if they were, they certainly weren't far superior. Last year, he was good enough to finish a head and neck behind Fly Down, a neck behind Morning Line, and 3/4 behind Lucky so I wouldn't say they were far superior to him. Looked to me like he was right with them, maybe a step back and if these horses now are right with him, why aren't they also right on level with the ones from last year? To me, if you are going to say the horses last year were good, you've got to say these are too. I personally think that both groups were/are average at best and that First Dude is no better now than he was then and that it's just been an adjustment in training that has changed him from loser to winner. Now he runs all the way through instead of waiting on them, which I thought he was doing last year.

What about last year's Haskell, Travers, or BC Classic? Open length defeats. The only thing he was waiting on was a bus to take him home. He wasn't in the same zip code as Lookin At Lucky.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Last year, he was losing. This year, he is winning. You make it seem like Fly Down, Afleet Express, Lookin at Lucky, and Morning Line were some kind of murders row. They weren't. I don't think they were better than what he's facing now and if they were, they certainly weren't far superior. Last year, he was good enough to finish a head and neck behind Fly Down, a neck behind Morning Line, and 3/4 behind Lucky so I wouldn't say they were far superior to him. Looked to me like he was right with them, maybe a step back and if these horses now are right with him, why aren't they also right on level with the ones from last year? To me, if you are going to say the horses last year were good, you've got to say these are too. I personally think that both groups were/are average at best and that First Dude is no better now than he was then and that it's just been an adjustment in training that has changed him from loser to winner. Now he runs all the way through instead of waiting on them, which I thought he was doing last year.

So Lookin at Lucky isn't any better than Game on Dude or Regal Ransom? Fly Down isn't any better than Equestrio?

Two nose wins and he's shed the loser title and is now a winner. Awesome.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

So Lookin at Lucky isn't any better than Game on Dude or Regal Ransom? Fly Down isn't any better than Equestrio?

Two nose wins and he's shed the loser title and is now a winner. Awesome.

Lookin at Lucky was only able to beat him 3/4 of a length in the Preakness. Fly Down was well ahead of him in the Travers and BC Classic but in three other races, beat him less than 1/2 length. So is Fly Down really so much better than him? Morning Line beat him by a neck in Pennsylvania. If all of these horses were so much better than him, why was he able to be so competitive with them? The answer is because they weren't significantly better than him, if at all. He was at the very least right there with them. And if these horses now are right with him, doesn't that put them right with the group from last year?

Maybe I'm getting old but I'm having a hard time remember what where Lookin at Lucky's fast races that make him such a world beater? The point I was making wasn't that Fly Down wasn't better than Equestrio but that he wasn't really much better than First Dude. At least I never thought he was.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Lookin at Lucky was only able to beat him 3/4 of a length in the Preakness. Fly Down was well ahead of him in the Travers and BC Classic but in three other races, beat him less than 1/2 length. So is Fly Down really so much better than him? Morning Line beat him by a neck in Pennsylvania. If all of these horses were so much better than him, why was he able to be so competitive with them? The answer is because they weren't significantly better than him, if at all. He was at the very least right there with them. And if these horses now are right with him, doesn't that put them right with the group from last year?

Maybe I'm getting old but I'm having a hard time remember what where Lookin at Lucky's fast races that make him such a world beater? The point I was making wasn't that Fly Down wasn't better than Equestrio but that he wasn't really much better than First Dude. At least I never thought he was.

What are you talking about? Do you even know?

Who called Lookin at Lucky a world beater? He wasn't, but he certainly proved he was better than First Dude on the track (he beat him by 4 at Monmouth as well as the Preakness) and he was a lot better than anything First Dude has beaten (by a nose) this year.

You said the horses he's beating this year aren't any worse than what he faced last year. Those are your words, not mine.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Lookin at Lucky was only able to beat him 3/4 of a length in the Preakness. Fly Down was well ahead of him in the Travers and BC Classic but in three other races, beat him less than 1/2 length. So is Fly Down really so much better than him?

First Dude was close to Lookin At Lucky in the Preakness, but in two other races, was beaten by over 4 lengths. So is First Dude really so close to him?