Most Impressive World Record

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Sometimes the tracks are souped up on different days, therefore, allowing an inferior horse to set track records. Of course, the combination of the track being souped up and Najran running his heart out could have equalled Dr. Fager's record. How come all of the great horses who have run at 8 furlongs couldn't beat or equal Dr. Fager's record? Also, Dr. Fager was carrying 134 pounds.

Also, Spectacular Bid was a better horse than Secretariat IMO. Secretariat never came close to SB's mile and a quarter record. The mile and a quarter distance is the most important distance for classic horses. That is why both the Kentucky Derby and the Breeder's Cup Classic are run at that distance in addition to the Hollywood Gold Cup, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Santa Anita Handicap, Pacific Classic, Travers, and Suburban. An argument for Secretariat would be that he still holds the track and stakes record at Churchill Downs. Of course, SB remains in a league of his own as a four year old still today. No horse could have matched SB as a four year old. None. He proved that by setting numerous records, having a walk-over, and going out undefeated for his four year old year. A phenomenal racehorse...

Of course, I don't think that any horse could have matched Secretariat in his three year old year either...

How do you know the track wasn't souped up for Dr. Fager? Najran set his record on a weekday, so i doubt the track was souped up.

As for the Bid's record, he did it at age 4. Notice only 1 record is held by a 3yr old, and years ago there were so big races other than the Belmont run at 12f. Nobody has ever come close to it. Not close. Secretariat still holds the Kentucky Derby record, and every single year 20 of the top horses in the world try to break it, and despite the efforts of the track maintenance crew, nobody has come close.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Revolution

How do you know the track wasn't souped up for Dr. Fager? Najran set his record on a weekday, so i doubt the track was souped up.

As for the Bid's record, he did it at age 4. Notice only 1 record is held by a 3yr old, and years ago there were so big races other than the Belmont run at 12f. Nobody has ever come close to it. Not close. Secretariat still holds the Kentucky Derby record, and every single year 20 of the top horses in the world try to break it, and despite the efforts of the track maintenance crew, nobody has come close.

You don't know when the track is going to be souped up. It is usually caused by weather conditions and not track management.

Monarchos came close in 2000. Yet, there is another example of an inferior horse (sorry Monarchos) being the first to break two minutes in the Derby since Secretariat and Sham. Do you now see why the Najran comparison isn't logical?

Bellamy Road equalled Riva Ridge's record when he was a three year old...

It is also interesting that Belmont Park deepened and slowed the track down after Ruffian's death. So, no horse since Ruffian's death has had the chance to do what Secretariat did that day at Belmont. It is impossible. Of course, it may have been impossible anyway, but we will never know. The Belmont track will never be as fast as it was on that day. I'm not saying that it was all the track because it wasn't. Secretariat was just a great racehorse, and maybe the biggest freak that ever lived.

However, Spectacular Bid did more during his career, and was better overall.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

You don't know when the track is going to be souped up. It is usually caused by weather conditions and not track management.

Monarchos came close in 2000. Yet, there is another example of an inferior horse (sorry Monarchos) being the first to break two minutes in the Derby since Secretariat and Sham. Do you now see why the Najran comparison isn't logical?

Bellamy Road equalled Riva Ridge's record when he was a three year old...

It is also interesting that Belmont Park deepened and slowed the track down after Ruffian's death. So, no horse since Ruffian's death has had the chance to do what Secretariat did that day at Belmont. It is impossible. Of course, it may have been impossible anyway, but we will never know. The Belmont track will never be as fast as it was on that day. I'm not saying that it was all the track because it wasn't. Secretariat was just a great racehorse, and maybe the biggest freak that ever lived.

However, Spectacular Bid did more during his career, and was better overall.

1) Najran shares the track record with Dr. Fager. There is no logical or illogical about anything. Najran is the world record holder.
2) Monarchos did not beat Secretariats track record, who cares about close
3) Weather has less to do with the track being souped up than track crews
4) Bellamy Road equaled Riva Ridge's track record at 9f, not Riva's world record at 9.5f. Bellamy is 2 full seconds short of the world record at 9f.
5) Secretariat is the only 3yr old with a world record.
6) Secretariat is a triple crown winner, Spectacular Bid is NOT. How was the Bid on the turf?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revolution

1) Najran shares the track record with Dr. Fager. There is no logical or illogical about anything. Najran is the world record holder.
2) Monarchos did not beat Secretariats track record, who cares about close
3) Weather has less to do with the track being souped up than track crews
4) Bellamy Road equaled Riva Ridge's track record at 9f, not Riva's world record at 9.5f. Bellamy is 2 full seconds short of the world record at 9f.
5) Secretariat is the only 3yr old with a world record.
6) Secretariat is a triple crown winner, Spectacular Bid is NOT. How was the Bid on the turf?

najran will have an * next to his name on that record, as he was carrying less weight than the horse he shares that record with. so it's not 'equal' in most peoples opinion. how could it be?
as for how was the bid on turf-i dont' recall him running on it, so who knows? that would be like asking how secretariat was at four.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

najran will have an * next to his name on that record, as he was carrying less weight than the horse he shares that record with. so it's not 'equal' in most peoples opinion. how could it be?
as for how was the bid on turf-i dont' recall him running on it, so who knows? that would be like asking how secretariat was at four.

He won't have any * next to it. That is ridiculous. Do we put an asterisk next to records because one is on a track that is known to be faster, or one that has a pace scenario that benefitted a horse?

Najran is a world record holder with Dr. Fager. It is that simple. The original poster needs to add Najran.

As for the Bid and Secretariat, the Bid could never be Secretariat, because Secretariat pulled off the toughest feat in the sport. He won the triple crown. The Bid couldn't get it done. There are no excuses when talking about greatness either. You either get it done or you don't.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revolution

He won't have any * next to it. That is ridiculous. Do we put an asterisk next to records because one is on a track that is known to be faster, or one that has a pace scenario that benefitted a horse?

Najran is a world record holder with Dr. Fager. It is that simple. The original poster needs to add Najran.

As for the Bid and Secretariat, the Bid could never be Secretariat, because Secretariat pulled off the toughest feat in the sport. He won the triple crown. The Bid couldn't get it done. There are no excuses when talking about greatness either. You either get it done or you don't.

yeah, i'm sure secretariats five losses were 'getting it done'...

as for the original poster, take up your issues with his question with him. i see no problem with only putting dr fager up there, since dr fager is the only one to break the mile record while carrying 134 pounds.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I'm with you on this one Danzig. Dr. Fager was a GREAT horse who deserves all the praise and credit in the world.

I think it's funny in how the TC is emphasized sooo much. Some not so great horses have won the TC, and some great horses that should have won the TC didn't for one reason or another.

Ghostzapper didn't win the TC and he was a freak. Kelso didn't win the TC either. Neither did Man O' War, Dr. Fager, Cigar, Spectacular Bid, Damascus, or Buckpasser. All were great horses. Some tried and failed. Some didn't even get the chance to run.

Nor could Secretariat have ever been the Bid...

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

yeah, i'm sure secretariats five losses were 'getting it done'...

as for the original poster, take up your issues with his question with him. i see no problem with only putting dr fager up there, since dr fager is the only one to break the mile record while carrying 134 pounds.

Weight means nothing when talking world records. So if a horse carries 135 and runs 10f in 158 and another carries 125 and runs it is 157.4, by your reasoning the horse carrrying 135 should get the record. It doesn't work that way. The horse with the faster time is the record holder. Both horses have the same time and therefore are both world record holders.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Revolution

1) Najran shares the track record with Dr. Fager. There is no logical or illogical about anything. Najran is the world record holder.
2) Monarchos did not beat Secretariats track record, who cares about close
3) Weather has less to do with the track being souped up than track crews
4) Bellamy Road equaled Riva Ridge's track record at 9f, not Riva's world record at 9.5f. Bellamy is 2 full seconds short of the world record at 9f.
5) Secretariat is the only 3yr old with a world record.
6) Secretariat is a triple crown winner, Spectacular Bid is NOT. How was the Bid on the turf?

2) But he came close.
3) Ha...tell that to all the horses that constantly break records at tracks in which there would be NO reason for souping up the tracks for those horses.
4) Still, Bellamy Road equalled the track record at 9f and he was a three year old.
6) Spectacular Bid holds the mile and a quarter record...the most important distance. Also, Spectacular Bid equalled records as a two year old. Secretariat did not. Specatacular Bid was OVERALL the better horse who had just as good of a four year old year as Secretariat's three year old year. In fact, I think Secretariat's BSF average for his three year old year was at 115 and the Bid's BSF average was at 122 for his four year old year.

How was Secretariat as a four year old?