One down, 49 to go.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

This isn't the big deal you think it is, Joey.

First, as an aside, under our system of democracy, states cannot ignore or simply choose not to follow federal law. No matter how much they want to (see immigration, the Civil War, etc)

Secondly, there is a provision in the Affordable Care Act that any state can choose to not be bound by the provisions of the Act. No big deal. That leaves the state, under Federal Law, to provide the same or better quality of care within the state, at state expense. If they do not do that, the Feds can legally come in, and put their own provisions into place.

For example, Vermont is going to go it alone, too, in favor of a more inclusive single payer system.

So, really smart, Gov. Otter - your state still has to provide the same services, but now you get to pay for it all by yourself

Joey, you've never really articulated why you hate "Obamacare" so much. Do tell - what, exactly, about it do you dislike so much? Is it that children with cancer can no longer reach a lifetime cap and be kicked off insurance for life as children? That people with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase healthcare? That 30 million people will be self-insured, and no longer have their healthcare paid by us because they only seek ER care in emergencies?

Put succinctly: socialized medicine sucks.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Put succinctly: socialized medicine sucks.

The PPACA is NOT "socialized medicine". Not even close.

It is the same "buy your insurance from an insurance company, and choose your doctor" we have right now.

If you have insurance, nothing will change for you (except over time your premiums should go down, and your insurance company cannot screw you as it used to: kick you off, lifetime cap, refuse to insure for some conditions, etc)

If you are one of the 40 million without insurance, about 30 million will be able to purchase insurance from insurance companies.

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA)[1][2] is a federal statute that was signed into United States law by President Barack Obama on March 23, 2010. This Act and the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (signed into law on March 30, 2010) made up the health care reform of 2010. The laws focus on reform of the private health insurance market, provide better coverage for those with pre-existing conditions, improve prescription drug coverage in Medicare and extend the life of the Medicare Trust fund by at least 12 years.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient...dable_Care_Act

Nothing about "socialized medicine" in there at all. Zip, zero, nada. Why do you think the "left" was so disappointed in what little the final law contains?

And the final proof of who this law benefits the most? Insurance company stock went up the day this law was passed.

[Riot]

Supreme Court decision today:

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court rejected a call Monday from Virginia's attorney general to depart from its usual practice and put review of the health care law on a fast track. Instead, judicial review of President Barack Obama's signature legislation will continue in federal appeals courts.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

The PPACA is NOT "socialized medicine".

And the final proof of who this law benefits the most? Insurance company stock went up the day this law was passed.

and so did policies. If you held insurance stock good for you. If you did not and are healthy, bend over and assume the position.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nothing about "socialized medicine" in there at all. Zip, zero, nada. Why do you think the "left" was so disappointed in what little the final law contains?
.

it's the part where the healthy and haves are subsidizing the unhealthy and have nots by force and fines.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

it's the part where the healthy and haves are subsidizing the unhealthy and have nots by force and fines.

What in the world do you think you are doing right now? Your & my insurance premiums today pay for those that are uninsured and head into the ER when they are sick. Our tax dollars already go towards Medicaid for the qualifiers. Right now we are paying for the 40 million uninsured.

Far better they buy their own insurance rather than being uninsured, and they start to pay part rather than nothing for Medicaid! I'd rather be paying for only 10 million uninsured, myself!

And again, I don't know why you keep repeating the "force and fines" falsehood - it's been pointed out to you before that the PPACA specifically has a prohibition against collecting any fines for not having healthcare. So you are aware of that, and have been in the past. So why do you keep repeating a falsehood?

It's like Trump and his moronic, deliberate lies about Obama's birth certificate.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Far better they buy their own insurance .

Far better for them to buy a house and car as well and I'm not interested in paying for that either.

If they were actually buying their own insurance great. But the thought of a patient who was subsized by a patient waiting behind him is wrong. This is nothing but a scheme for socialized medicine for all using the private sector as the caregiver.

[somerfrost]

Riot, this is useless....some folks are so afraid that they might actually help someone in need that they are blinded to facts.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Riot, this is useless....we are so smart and the rest of them are so stupid, remember we are better than everyone else. Just ask us.

FTFY

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Far better for them to buy a house and car as well and I'm not interested in paying for that either.

If they were actually buying their own insurance great. But the thought of a patient who was subsized by a patient waiting behind him is wrong. This is nothing but a scheme for socialized medicine for all using the private sector as the caregiver.

thing is, you have been subsidizing patients for years. why do you think medical costs are so high? because the insured have been supplementing the uninsured for years and years. they can't pay, so we pay extra-because the medical providers must get money from somewhere. so, non-payers get written off because those of us who can pay do-plenty.

the overall cost of insurance goes down to those who have when more people buy in. if everyone bought, the overall cost per policy would go down.


on the flip side of this-forcing insurers to carry high risk patients will swell the costs for the rest of us. they cost a lot because they get a lot more care, so once again the cost is spread to everyone. so is the cost of keeping kids on their parents tab til 26. it would have been better if a high risk plan was put in place-much like there is car insurance for high risk drivers-they pay thru the nose, rather than everyone paying thru the nose.


it's not a perfect plan-i've always wondered how you can force folks to buy insurance, i guess we're going to see if that can happen.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thing is, you have been subsidizing patients for years. why do you think medical costs are so high? because the insured have been supplementing the uninsured for years and years.

A worthy effort Danzig, but del and the boys have had this very important point explained to them countless times over the course of this debate. It has no effect. They can't refute it of course, but they do a splendid job of ignoring it and going on to making their same point over and over....no matter how nonsensical.