Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[Riot]

Rasmussen is one poll from a week ago. Here's three more current that disagree:

New Polls Bring More Bad News for Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker
By Robert Schlesinger
Posted: March 1, 2011

A trio of new surveys bring more bad news for embattled Wisconsin Republican Gov. Scott Walker. All three show that the public is taking a dim view of union-busting efforts, and all three have results that more or less dovetail with each other.

A poll of Wisconsin voters by the Democratic-leaning Public Policy Polling, for example, has 46 percent of voters approving of Walker overall, with 52 percent disapproving. On the specific issue that has dominated the state, 57 percent of voters believe that public workers should have collective bargaining rights, whereas 37 percent believe that they should not.

That 57-37 margin lines up pretty well with the results of a new New York Times/CBS News survey of adults nationwide which found that 60 percent oppose taking away some collective bargaining rights from public unions (38 percent strongly oppose, 22 percent somewhat oppose) while only 33 favor the idea (18 percent strongly, 15 percent somewhat). When the Times and CBS asked adults whether they would favor cutting pay or benefits for public employees in order to balance the budget, similar numbers oppose the idea (37 percent favor, 56 percent against).

Similarly a new Pew Research Center poll of adults nationwide found a clear plurality siding with the public employee unions (42 percent) over Governor Walker (31 percent), with 18 percent saying they didn’t know which side they were on.
The PPP poll, which just focused on a presumably better informed selection of Wisconsin voters gave majorities to Walker’s opponents—voters side with public unions 51-47 over the governor and they side with state Senate Democrats (the ones who have decamped out of state) by virtually the same margin, 52-47. that differ

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...v-scott-walker

[Riot]

Originally Posted by mark2061mn

I believe that article is a national poll not Wisconsin residents. Riots poll numbers state Wisconsin residents.

No, I was wrong- the one I quoted was all Americans. I saw a Wisconsin-only poll, it was pro-union, but trying to find it ...

Edit: here are three Wisconsin-citizen only polls that also show the citizens don't support Walker

The poll of 500 likely voters, Wisconsin residents only, which was conducted on Monday, Feb.21:
According to the poll, 56 percent say Wisconsin state employees and public employee unions should have collective bargaining powers. Thirty-two percent disagree, and 12 percent of those polled are unsure.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/pol...dget-standoff/

Another

2400 Wisconsin residents asked automated poll 2/17/11 http://weaskamerica.com/2011/02/18/w...-in-wisconsin/
Do you approve of Gov Walkers plan to limit the pay of government workers and teachers, increase their share of the cost of benefits, and strip some public-employ unions of much of their power.
We’d like to know if APPROVE or DISAPPROVE of Gov. Walker’s plan.
Approve 43.05%
Disapprove 51.90%
Not sure 5.05%

And another

http://www.wispolitics.com/1006/BSW_..._17___2011.pdf
602 Wisconsin voters polled
Remove collective bargaining rights: 33.7% agree, 35.2% oppose
Support for Walker less than opposition, etc (see poll)

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Dell quit trying. Reasoning with Riot is like trying to work out new contracts with the teachers union.

Really? What part of my posting, "AFSCME Files Unfair Labor Practice Complaint Against Gov. Walker", which is indeed true, is "being unreasonable"??

Or maybe Dell can explain how the fact that AFSCME filed the complaint is, "not having a clue?"

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Really? What part of my posting, "AFSCME Files Unfair Labor Practice Complaint Against Gov. Walker", which is indeed true, is "being unreasonable"??

Or maybe Dell can explain how the fact that AFSCME filed the complaint is, "not having a clue?"

Riot you believe Scott Walker is the devil and unions are the best thing that happened to the workers since sliced bread. You quote polls, articles, etc and try everything to prove your point. I can find you polls that say the opposite and I can dispute all of your arguments however I have a job (unlike a lot of the protestors in Madison) a family and a life outside of trying to prove you are incorrect.

You have not once posted a solution to the budget problems that our state faces and that many states will face in the future thanks to the outrageous spending and government entitlements. If you believe you have a better solution I would love to hear it and again saying that the teachers union is willing to accept cuts is not an acceptable solution since they can not negotiate that since each municipality will have to do that themselves. Please enlighten us...

[wiphan]

Also here is an example of the one school district (not the top paying by any means in WI)

Kaukana Area School District and the Comensation section of the union contract. Just a few Highlights for your review:


1) The full year contract for a teacher is 188 days. This includes 176 teaching days and 12 in-service days. Page 9 Master Contract.

2) The district uses WEA for it’s health insurance provider. Cost over $23,000/yr.

3) The district uses WEA for it's dental and pays 90% of the cost.

4) The district provides 2x salary for group life insurance through WEA paid 100% by employer.

5) The district provides long term disability through WEA paid 100% by employer.

6) The district provides long term care insuranc through WEA paid 100% by the employer. I just quoted my own LTC policy at age 36 at a cost of $4,100/yr.

7) Teachers are assigned 5 class periods/ day and if a teacher is assigned a six period they shall be paid one seventhe of their annual salary for this extra assignment .

8) Normal work week for teachers shall be 37.5 hours. Page 17 Master Contract.

9) Teacher normal work day is 7:30 to 3:45 with a required 30 minute lunch and 8 hours of prep time each week. Page 17 Master Contract.

10) Full year for pension credit is 1,350 hours. See WRS Website for pension credits.


Example hourly rate for 1st year Kaukauna teacher:


$37,100 (see pay grid) / 188 work days (based on contract) / 8 hour pay day from 7:30 to 5:00PM ( contract is 7:30 to 3:45) hourly rate for first year teacher is $24.66/hr.

$30,000 benefits ($23,000 health/$4,081 Pension/Dental/LTC/Life)/ 188 work days/ 8 hour pay=$20.80/hr.

Total 1st year pay package Kaukauna Teacher is $24.66 +$20.80=$41.63

Example hourly rate for a teacher with over 10 years experience:

$79,559 (see pay grid) / 188 work days (based on contract) / 8 hour pay day from 7:30 to 5:00PM ( contract is 7:30 to 3:45) hourly rate is $52.89/hr.

$35,000 benefits ($23,000 health/$8,751 Pension/Dental/LTC/Life)/ 188 work days/ 8 hour pay=$23.27/hr.

Total pay package Kaukauna Teacher is $52.89+$23.27=$76.16/hr.

If they worked a full year of 2040 hours this would amount to a total pay package of $155,366 at $76.16/hr.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Riot you believe Scott Walker is the devil and unions are the best thing that happened to the workers since sliced bread. .

Well, no. I don't.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions about other people?

You quote polls, articles, etc and try everything to prove your point.

Um, no. I post articles, polls, etc - and that forms my opinion. I don't start with an opinion, first.

I can find you polls that say the opposite and I can dispute all of your arguments however I have a job (unlike a lot of the protestors in Madison) a family and a life outside of trying to prove you are incorrect.

Ah. I see. Everything I think or post is "incorrect". THAT's what it is you think is "unreasonable" <vbg>

And you're actually making snarky comments about me because you think I have more free time than you to pay attention to politics (that's not allowed?), or that I love talking about politics? (not allowed either in your world?) Not very tolerant of other people being different than you, are you? And I'm the one being "unreasonable"? LOL

[Riot]

If they worked a full year of 2040 hours this would amount to a total pay package of $155,366 at $76.16/hr.

But they don't work a full year. They work 188 days. But their salary has to cover them for a full year like anyone else. If they worked a full year, their package would probably remain exactly what it is now.

The math here is obviously faulty. The correct thing to do, to compare what teachers earn a year to what everyone else earns for a year, is to take what they earn and spread that over 12 months. Not 188 days. Because professionals are paid a yearly salary and benefits package, not an hourly wage.

You also cannot include pension money in the yearly calcuation, because that is deferred pay.

[geeker2]

uh oh....polls don't lie do they?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...ion-households

[Danzig]

it's funny, when school is mentioned as going all year long, the teachers wan't a pay raise. but when you say they make too much money based on working half a year, they try to show that they work all year. still haven't figured out how that works.

and i wish my husbands insurance was set up like the schools here. sure would save me a ton of money.

as for unions-i think all states should be right to work states, as it is here in arkansas. you aren't forced to join a union here; it's a choice- it should be a choice everywhere. i think that's where many have an issue with a union. you choose to join a profession, you're automatically in, dues collected, etc, etc, whether you like it or not. whether you agree with the union or not.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

uh oh....polls don't lie do they?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...ion-households

You always look at the sampling methodology, and compare to the margin of error the poll publishes. Some pollsters have a great reputation for predictive accuracy, some do not. The contention made here, that you have to exactly match the percentage number per category within the population you are sampling, isn't true from a statistical accuracy sense. There are lots of other things that come into play. The PDF posted with this article doesn't even list the sampling technique for selecting who was talked to, that I can find.

I can get an accurate scientific study published using just 6 horses, if you treat the datum accurately and fairly in a statistical sense. And no, that is not "making numbers say what you want".

(sorry, had to repost this under me)

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, no. I don't.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions about other people?



Um, no. I post articles, polls, etc - and that forms my opinion. I don't start with an opinion, first.



Ah. I see. Everything I think or post is "incorrect". THAT's what it is you think is "unreasonable" <vbg>

And you're actually making snarky comments about me because you think I have more free time than you to pay attention to politics (that's not allowed?), or that I love talking about politics? (not allowed either in your world?) Not very tolerant of other people being different than you, are you? And I'm the one being "unreasonable"? LOL

nice moonwalk

[SOREHOOF]

Do you happen to be a member of a veternary union? Have you ever been in a union? I have.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, no. I don't.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions about other people?



Um, no. I post articles, polls, etc - and that forms my opinion. I don't start with an opinion, first.



Ah. I see. Everything I think or post is "incorrect". THAT's what it is you think is "unreasonable" <vbg>

And you're actually making snarky comments about me because you think I have more free time than you to pay attention to politics (that's not allowed?), or that I love talking about politics? (not allowed either in your world?) Not very tolerant of other people being different than you, are you? And I'm the one being "unreasonable"? LOL

You still have not offerred a single solution to WI budget problems. Please enlighten us with your solution

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

nice moonwalk

No. It was not.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Do you happen to be a member of a veternary union? Have you ever been in a union? I have.

There is no veterinary union. Yes, I have.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

You still have not offerred a single solution to WI budget problems. Please enlighten us with your solution

And you are simply trying to change the subject.

Hold out and keep hoping for those 250,000 new jobs over the next four years your Governor promised you today. If Walker creates 250,000 new Wisconsin jobs I'll happily vote for him for President of the United States.

But for right now, I'll go with the long past performance history of the economic policies he's inducing, and expect a state-wide deepening recession and massive local municipal job layoffs, myself.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. It was not.

yeah...it was. You didnt answer a lick of his question, or give a solution. You appear to have most of the floor...so quit dancing and put forth a small solution.

[dellinger63]

A budget prototype:


TAXES
— Does not include any state sales or income tax increases and would limit schools and local governments on how much they could raise property taxes. Walker also said he wouldn’t increase any fees.
— Creates a 100 percent exclusion from capital gains taxes for those who invest in Wisconsin-based businesses and hold those investments for at least five years.


MEDICAID
— Cuts $500 million from Medicaid through a variety of reforms including increasing co-pays and deductibles, but not by reducing benefits across the board or cutting provider reimbursement rates.

K-12 SCHOOLS
— Cuts aid to schools by about $900 million and also reduces how much schools can collect from property taxes per student.
— Eliminates the requirement that schools be open 180 days a year, but retains the classroom hours mandate. The change would allow schools that want to meet for fewer, longer days to do so.
— Repeals the enrollment limit for the virtual charter school program and the Milwaukee school choice program.


HIGHER EDUCATION
— Allows the University of Wisconsin-Madison to split from the UW System and operate independently. The system would have to launch a study into allowing UW-Milwaukee to break off as well.
— Cuts aid to UW-Madison by $125 million and to the other 25 campuses in the system by $125 million.
— Ends the Wisconsin Covenant program, one of Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle’s signature programs, on Sept. 30. The program promises financial aid for college to middle school students who promise to stay out of trouble and earn decent grades. Students who sign up for the program before Sept. 30 could still participate. Walker argues this change would protect other forms of financial aid from cuts.
— Children of illegal immigrants who attend state universities and colleges could no longer pay in-state tuition, a benefit granted in the 2009 budget by Democrats then in control of the Legislature and the governor’s office.
— Cuts aid to technical colleges by 30 percent, or $72 million.
— Authorizes all four-year UW campuses to sponsor independent charter schools and allow charter schools to be created anywhere in the state.


TRANSPORTATION
— Provides $225 million to rebuilding the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee.
— Provides $195 million to continue reconstruction of Interstate 94 between Milwaukee and Kenosha.


LAW AND ORDER
— Ends the ability of prison offenders to earn time off their sentences for good behavior, a change approved by Democrats.
— Ends the state Department of Corrections’ ability to discharge an offender from parole after two years and from probation after serving half the sentence.
— Closes the Ethan Allen School, a detention facility for boys, and move inmates to Lincoln Hills School in Lincoln County.
— Closes the Southern Oaks Girls School, a detention facility for girls, and move the inmates to Copper Lake School at Lincoln Hills.
— Provides six new full-time DNA analysts at the state crime labs to prevent case backlogs.
— Adds 19 more staff members at the state Department of Justice to track down cyber predators.


THE GREAT OUTDOORS
— Keeps hunting and fishing license fees unchanged.
— Scales back regulations to control phosphorus pollution to bring them in line with neighboring state’s rules. BTW the Lake I live near has been controlling phosphorus pollution by educating and having residents follow through by simply buying bio friendly laundry detergent and refraining from washing clothes on weekends during the summer. And yes it's prestine despite being the most recreationally used lake in WI. It's one of those ask not what your government can do for you feelings everytime your on or in the Lake

— Eliminates payments to local governments that lose property tax revenue following state Department of Natural Resources land stewardship purchases. Governments would be allowed to pass resolutions supporting or opposing purchases as a signal to the DNR, but the resolutions would not be binding. The Legislature’s budget committee would have to approve stewardship purchases of more than $250,000.
— Ends requirements that a municipality or county run solid waste recycling programs and diverts state aid for such programs to other economic development efforts.


GOVERNMENT
— State spending under the $28.7 billion plan would decrease 1.3 percent the first year then go up 5.3 percent in the second. Over the entire two-year budget spending would go up a paltry 1.3 percent.
— Cuts most state agency budgets, except for salary and benefits, by 10 percent.
— Eliminate 735 state positions that have been vacant for more than a year.
— Downsizes the state treasurer and secretary of state’s offices, moving many of their existing duties elsewhere. The EdVest college savings program would be removed from the treasurer’s office while the secretary of state office would lose its responsibility to handle trademark and trade name registrations and notary public commissions.
— Cuts aid to cities by $60 million, an 8.8 percent reduction, while counties would lose over $36 million, a 24 percent cut.
— Drops the state’s ongoing budget shortfall from $2.5 billion to $250 million in four years, the smallest so-called “structural deficit” on record.

http://www.gazettextra.com/weblogs/l...rief-overview/

[geeker2]

hold on a second while I check huffington to see if there is a response

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

And you are simply trying to change the subject.

Hold out and keep hoping for those 250,000 new jobs over the next four years your Governor promised you today. If Walker creates 250,000 new Wisconsin jobs I'll happily vote for him for President of the United States.

But for right now, I'll go with the long past performance history of the economic policies he's inducing, and expect a state-wide deepening recession and massive local municipal job layoffs, myself.

Again you just continue to bash the Republicans for everything they do, but still have not offered the "Riot Budget Plan Solution". In the real world you can't just complain about the other side. You need to offer a viable solution to the problem. Just bitching about the other side's proposal doesn't cut it. Ignoring the problem, not addressing the problem or just complaining about the other side's solution does nothing. Please give me at least 1 idea you have to solve the budget deficit issue in WI