The model is the World Series of Poker TV coverage

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The millions of people who play fantasy sports and take it seriously spend countless hours a week pouring over stats - it takes a lot of dedication and there is very little reward. I believe one survey even claimed it was the #2 reason given why women break up with their boyfriend.

The kind of guy who is going to juggle his fantasy outfielders around every day because....

'guy A might be my 5th best hitting outfielder - but he is playing in high scoring Coors Field tonight - and going against a mediocre left handed pitcher. He's 11-for-24 lifetime with 4 HR's against this pitcher - and he generally feasts off of left handed pitching - guy B is my 2nd best hitting outfielder - he's up against Johan Santana today and he's 4-for-31 lifetime against him. I'll sit him and play the scrub'

These are the kind of guys that horse racing would have a big chance with.

Like I said - no idea how to reach them. That's racings problem to figure out.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The millions of people who play fantasy sports and take it seriously spend countless hours a week pouring over stats - it takes a lot of dedication and there is very little reward. I believe one survey even claimed it was the #2 reason given why women break up with their boyfriend.

The kind of guy who is going to juggle his fantasy outfielders around every day because....

'guy A might be my 5th best hitting outfielder - but he is playing in high scoring Coors Field tonight - and going against a mediocre left handed pitcher. He's 11-for-24 lifetime with 4 HR's against this pitcher - and he generally feasts off of left handed pitching - guy B is my 2nd best hitting outfielder - he's up against Johan Santana today and he's 4-for-31 lifetime against him. I'll sit him and play the scrub'

These are the kind of guys that horse racing would have a big chance with.

Like I said - no idea how to reach them. That's racings problem to figure out.

I disagree Doug. Don't forget these are guys who have the chance to make moves everyday. Then there is that almost instant gratification (especially in baseball) with games being played every night.

I just think that there are too many varibles in racing for it to be a success.

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I disagree Doug. Don't forget these are guys who have the chance to make moves everyday. Then there is that almost instant gratification (especially in baseball) with games being played every night.

I just think that there are too many varibles in racing for it to be a success.

Which make the possibilities endless and gives a much higher percentage of implementing a system that will be a success.

It won't happen. You really need media exposure. TVG and HRTV aren't cutting it.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Which make the possibilities endless and gives a much higher percentage of implementing a system that will be a success.

It won't happen. You really need media exposure. TVG and HRTV aren't cutting it.

I guess the possibilities could be endless. But I just feel like there is a big obstacle besides the lack of coverage that racing would have to get over for this to work. Mostly the education of the possible new fan base would be number one on the list. But then I think, if there was a way to educate this new group, wouldn't you rather that they were using there new knowledge by putting money into betting pools then wasting their time playing some sort of fantasy game? Or am I putting the cart before the horse and people are thinking that the fantasy game will draw people into playing for real?

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I guess the possibilities could be endless. But I just feel like there is a big obstacle besides the lack of coverage that racing would have to get over for this to work. Mostly the education of the possible new fan base would be number one on the list. But then I think, if there was a way to educate this new group, wouldn't you rather that they were using there new knowledge by putting money into betting pools then wasting their time playing some sort of fantasy game? Or am I putting the cart before the horse and people are thinking that the fantasy game will draw people into playing for real?

Educating the new players is a big problem. Drf, sheets, and video replays can price most people out of the market.

You would have so many hands in the pot and that would raise the takeout to a level that wouldn't keep it a competitive product.

Many sacrifices would have to be made in order for it to work. Good luck with any being made.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Educating the new players is a big problem. Drf, sheets, and video replays can price most people out of the market.

You would have so many hands in the pot and that would raise the takeout to a level that wouldn't keep it a competitive product.

Many sacrifices would have to be made in order for it to work. Good luck with any being made.

Very good point. I agree totally with this. As much as I love the Daily Racing Form, I believe they are costing the game future players due to their greed. They are charging WAAYY too much for their product simply because there isn't any competition. (You could argue about BRIS, etc but the DRF PP's are unique).

I buy the Formulator PP's and pay $149.99 per month for unlimited tracks. This is about 3 times what it really should cost.

[Linny]

Decades ago here in the Albany NY area one of the supermarkets had a game tied to racing. You got a ticket with every receipt with a race # and a horse #. Every Saturday (I think) they would show a series of races (I think from Tropical Park) and you tuned into see if you won. The races in question were old races, not current and effectively the horses were the moral equivalent of ping pong balls in the lottery.

I have long thought that encouraging a "lottery" for racing is a good idea. Have you ever taken a non racing friend to a track? They don't really get the PP's or understand how you might project a future effort from them, but they bet on a name or a color or a jockey and have a great time.

Why not promote something like the .10 super as a lottery. If people could buy a superfecta ticket at a convenience store on the way home and have a reason to watch a horse race as soon as they get home what harm is done? Sure, not everyone is going to evolve into a fan or regular bettor, but some might. Back to the prior example, if you bring different friends to the track eventually one or two might actually want to learn to read the pp's? Maybe a couple take an interest. If the same % of "lottery" style players want to get more involved, racing could grow.
The biggest issue with this example is that states wouldn't allow selling of racing tickets like lotto tickets in direct competition with their beloved lotteries.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I disagree Doug. Don't forget these are guys who have the chance to make moves everyday. Then there is that almost instant gratification (especially in baseball) with games being played every night.

I just think that there are too many varibles in racing for it to be a success.

I'm not even suggesting fantasy horse racing - I'm just saying there is huge cross-over potential with those kind of people.





Those are people racing might have a chance with - and there are millions of them. Getting the horsey loving girls carrying Zenyatta signs to study a racing form and think up betting strategies - no chance.

A simple suggestion might be to sponser a couple fantasy tournaments - and give the top four finishers a betting voucher type special coupon to hand the teller.

Give the contest winner something like two free $50 win bets and ten free $5 exactas for each weekend - over a stretch of five weekends.. along with a kit and handicapping book.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'm not even suggesting fantasy horse racing - I'm just saying there is huge cross-over potential with those kind of people.





Those are people racing might have a chance with - and there are millions of them. Getting the horsey loving girls carrying Zenyatta signs to study a racing form and think up betting strategies - no chance.

A simple suggestion might be to sponser a couple fantasy tournaments - and give the top four finishers a betting voucher type special coupon to hand the teller.

Give the contest winner something like two free $50 win bets and ten free $5 exactas for each weekend - over a stretch of five weekends.. along with a kit and handicapping book.

Are you talking about different sports or just horses?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Are you talking about different sports or just horses?

Football and Baseball.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Football and Baseball.

So basically you are turning the track into a sports bar for these people? What good is it, if they are doing nothing than just focusing their time on football & baseball the entire time.

Education is the key. On these days at the track when they focus on families, college kids and or any type of new patron that makes it to the track, the sport must focus it's attention on educating these people and getting them to use this new found knowledge on a return trip to the track. Maybe instead of giving away an umbrella, run some sort of education DVD giveaway sponsered by DRf or Equibase etc. and have it be part of a 4 part education set about the sport and more importantly betting it. Maybe in special editions of the weekend programs or forms they could include some sort of beginer DVD. You would think that anything would be a step in the right direction. Hell with all the useless programming TVG has, how about some sort of weekly handicapping show that they could just replay at certain times.

The ideas are endless, but unfortunately too many people inside the game seem to be alright with the staus quo and that's very unfortunate.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

So basically you are turning the track into a sports bar for these people? What good is it, if they are doing nothing than just focusing their time on football & baseball the entire time.

The whole idea is simply putting a series of free bets into the hands of a couple people who are FAR more likely to turn into horseplayers than your typical person.

I wouldn't even have them do a draft at the track. Find the most serious in-progress existing leauges in the area - and add a prize to it.

Basically - a selected giveaway.

[dean smith]

If you are trying to attrach new, uninitiated fans, I think any reality TV show about handicapping ought to be patterned after something like "Storage Wars" on A&E. If you haven't seen it, they've made a very entertaining show about, of all things, four guys who make part of their living bidding against each other in public auctions for unpaid storage lockers. It works becauce they found four entertaining characters to focus on. The viewer develops a favorite and roots for that guy to outmanuever the others and unearth the most valuable storage locker finds. In the process, you become educated on the way things work and find yourself wanting to go to storage locker auctions.

Find a handful of entertaining handicappers and focus on their approaches to a few good races a week and combine broad, introductory handicapping analysis with some more advanced tips. Shoot the races from many different angles, Kentucky Derby-style, and cut the races to seem as exciting as possible. Quickly break down the results and winnings and name a winner for the week. People will develop a favorite and root for the guy to outpredict the others and cash the biggest tickets. In the process, people will become educated on the basics of handicapping and find themselves wanting to go to the track or opening up their own ADW account. Hopefully.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by dean smith

If you are trying to attrach new, uninitiated fans, I think any reality TV show about handicapping ought to be patterned after something like "Storage Wars" on A&E. If you haven't seen it, they've made a very entertaining show about, of all things, four guys who make part of their living bidding against each other in public auctions for unpaid storage lockers. It works becauce they found four entertaining characters to focus on. The viewer develops a favorite and roots for that guy to outmanuever the others and unearth the most valuable storage locker finds. In the process, you become educated on the way things work and find yourself wanting to go to storage locker auctions.

Find a handful of entertaining handicappers and focus on their approaches to a few good races a week and combine broad, introductory handicapping analysis with some more advanced tips. Shoot the races from many different angles, Kentucky Derby-style, and cut the races to seem as exciting as possible. Quickly break down the results and winnings and name a winner for the week. People will develop a favorite and root for the guy to outpredict the others and cash the biggest tickets. In the process, people will become educated on the basics of handicapping and find themselves wanting to go to the track or opening up their own ADW account. Hopefully.

BINGO, right on target