baseball moves

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I suppose that guys arent banging down the door to go there but this is simply way too long and too much for a late blooming, non-star player. This is the type of deals Steinbrenner would make. Fans arent flocking to see Werth. The fact that he turns 32 in May makes it even worse than just overpaying. he had his best season this past year but at age 32 in a theoretically lesser juiced era there probably isnt much more improvement coming.

The average Jason werth season is .280 with 25 HR and 90 Rbi's
He has some defensive versitility as he can play center adequately

Washington has some talented guys coming through the system and have done a much better job drafting like tampa did in their rise to promeninence. But they never made a terrible deal like this that 4 years from now when Washington may be good they will be saddled with a 36 year old guy with so so power in decline making 20+ million a year, and still have 3 years left.

I will disagree that Werths best season came in 2010. I think it was 2009. He put up his best stats in 2010, but he was really horrible with runners in scoring position. like .162 or even worse. He had a few streaks where he was awesome... like the first few weeks when he seemed to hit 3 doubles per game.. but he was the last person on the Phillies roster you wanted up to bat in crunch time this year.

no way on earth I'd want the phils to keep werth for 7 years 126 mil. I read they offered 3 years 54 mil, which is fine.

he is a very good outfielder though, and has a terrific arm. i believe he can also throw a 95 mph fast ball and play catcher quite well!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I will disagree that Werths best season came in 2010. I think it was 2009. He put up his best stats in 2010, but he was really horrible with runners in scoring position. like .162 or even worse. He had a few streaks where he was awesome... like the first few weeks when he seemed to hit 3 doubles per game.. but he was the last person on the Phillies roster you wanted up to bat in crunch time this year.

no way on earth I'd want the phils to keep werth for 7 years 126 mil. I read they offered 3 years 54 mil, which is fine.

he is a very good outfielder though, and has a terrific arm. i believe he can also throw a 95 mph fast ball and play catcher quite well!

Either way he is not a star player and you dont give non-stars long term contracts worth that kind of money. I thought the phils offered 4 for 64.

[slotdirt]

Circa 2005-2006, the Tigers had to grossly overpay to get anybody to come to Detroit. I think the Nationals are in a similar situation, and with the two faces of the franchise injured and/or in the minors through 2012 at the earliest, it seems like management felt they had to do something to keep fan interest.

[Heels1989]

Nats reportedly set to offer Cliff Lee a 7-year deal worth over $200 mil. He's good but.......7 yr and $200 mil?

Probably an attempt by the org to give impression to fan base that they are trying to spend money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Heels1989

Nats reportedly set to offer Cliff Lee a 7-year deal worth over $200 mil. He's good but.......7 yr and $200 mil?

Probably an attempt by the org to give impression to fan base that they are trying to spend money.

Werth is a big mistake. This would be a monumental mistake unless they are ready to join the $150 million a year payroll. Werth and Lee alone would be 45 million. I guess the lessons of the SF world Series win are lost on the nats.

[jenroypa]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Werth is a big mistake. This would be a monumental mistake unless they are ready to join the $150 million a year payroll. Werth and Lee alone would be 45 million. I guess the lessons of the SF world Series win are lost on the nats.

Did I miss something? Did Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand and Edgar Renteria all decide to void their signings and give the $$ back? Giants payroll is in excess of $100 mill. and the 4 guys who carried them ( Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and Sanchez) make up less than 20 of that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jenroypa

Did I miss something? Did Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand and Edgar Renteria all decide to void their signings and give the $$ back? Giants payroll is in excess of $100 mill. and the 4 guys who carried them ( Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and Sanchez) make up less than 20 of that.

The point was that huge free agent signings didnt help the Giants win. As a matter of fact most of the big money contracts that they are paying did very little to help. Yes Zito had a good 1/2 of a season and Renteria played well in the World Series but they certainly didn't get their money's worth from those 3.

The Giants opening day payroll was 96 million.
18.5 went to Zito
12 went to Rowand
10 went to Renteria

So 40 million went to guys who were hardly better than replacement level players.

Do you think the Giants wish they werent on the hook to those two stiffs (Zito and Rowand) for the next 3 or 4 years? They won in spite of them and because they had a solid base of mostly homegrown pitching. Washington doesnt presently have that luxury.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Werth is a big mistake. This would be a monumental mistake unless they are ready to join the $150 million a year payroll. Werth and Lee alone would be 45 million. I guess the lessons of the SF world Series win are lost on the nats.

It's only a mistake if his signing and potential failure prohibits them from adding payroll.. My understanding is the family is extremely wealthy WAY more then the Yanks ownership.. If they really dont give a crap about P/L and only care about making the franchise a success on the field..Then who gives a dam about 40mil xtra over 7 years..

Dan Snyder hasnt made a good signing EVER yet the Skins always have money to waste on anything on the Xmas list.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It's only a mistake if his signing and potential failure prohibits them from adding payroll.. My understanding is the family is extremely wealthy WAY more then the Yanks ownership.. If they really dont give a crap about P/L and only care about making the franchise a success on the field..Then who gives a dam about 40mil xtra over 7 years..

Dan Snyder hasnt made a good signing EVER yet the Skins always have money to waste on anything on the Xmas list.

They may be wealthy but they dont have 20% of the revenues that the Yankees do. That is why there is a great chasm in baseball payrolls that isnt found in other team sports.

The thing is that overpaying guys doesnt make them better or younger. The extra 40 million could be an entire bullpen outside of a closer for 4 years. If they signed Joey Votto to the same deal it is a home run. Werth is an upgrade in right field. But at the plate he isnt really an upgrade over Dunn who Chicago got for 70 million less. If Lerner has the stomach to sponsor a $150 million dollar payroll, well I give him credit and say thats great. But i still think they are going to regret this contract like the Cubs regret the Soriano deal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Circa 2005-2006, the Tigers had to grossly overpay to get anybody to come to Detroit. I think the Nationals are in a similar situation, and with the two faces of the franchise injured and/or in the minors through 2012 at the earliest, it seems like management felt they had to do something to keep fan interest.

I dont think this will create fan interest. As a matter of fact I dont think there was much non-Strausberg interest anyway.

Winning creates fan interest (except tampa, sorry Bigs/rudeboy)

They need their homegrown guys to create a strong base and then add to fill in the holes. Right now there are just too many holes. Second base, 1st base, left field, the bullpen, center field, the entire rotation, catcher.

The thing is they have pieces. Zimmerman the 3rd baseman is a very good player, Zimmerman the pitcher is probably the best pitcher they have coming into the season. Desmond at SS is pretty good. Espinosa at 2nd base may be ok. they have 2 really good catching prospects a year or 2 away. Obviously Strausberg. Obviously Harper.There are some pitching prospects a few years away. If they keep signing guys that are in their prime now but will be in decline in a few years they will hamstring themselves when they should be peaking AND raise the expectations too high now and maybe really do something dumb like trade prospects at the deadline.

[wiphan]

No luv for Shaun Marcum to the Brewers? Decent deal for the Crew and all they had to give up was a good catching prospect in Lawrie who you can find some nice pics on Deadspin or facebook. Marcum isn't a #1 but he is a solid 2 or 3 and should help improve the pitching staff

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by wiphan

No luv for Shaun Marcum to the Brewers? Decent deal for the Crew and all they had to give up was a good catching prospect in Lawrie who you can find some nice pics on Deadspin or facebook. Marcum isn't a #1 but he is a solid 2 or 3 and should help improve the pitching staff

Does anyone in Wisconsin really give a s.hit about any team not named the Packers?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Does anyone in Wisconsin really give a s.hit about any team not named the Packers?

Believe it or not milwaukee is a great baseball city, but 1 playoff appearance in 25+ years doesn't help. Ultimately the state lives and dies with the pack though

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think this will create fan interest. As a matter of fact I dont think there was much non-Strausberg interest anyway.

Winning creates fan interest (except tampa, sorry Bigs/rudeboy)

They need their homegrown guys to create a strong base and then add to fill in the holes. Right now there are just too many holes. Second base, 1st base, left field, the bullpen, center field, the entire rotation, catcher.

The thing is they have pieces. Zimmerman the 3rd baseman is a very good player, Zimmerman the pitcher is probably the best pitcher they have coming into the season. Desmond at SS is pretty good. Espinosa at 2nd base may be ok. they have 2 really good catching prospects a year or 2 away. Obviously Strausberg. Obviously Harper.There are some pitching prospects a few years away. If they keep signing guys that are in their prime now but will be in decline in a few years they will hamstring themselves when they should be peaking AND raise the expectations too high now and maybe really do something dumb like trade prospects at the deadline.

I will give them a little credit. They are doing a pretty darn good job of marketing these days.

They did a bad job with the stadium design in that it is about as boring as you get but they do a really good job of making it extremely fan friendly.

On the baseball side, they have made some pretty poor moves starting with not trading adam dunn at the break for prospects and then letting him go for nothing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

On the baseball side, they have made some pretty poor moves starting with not trading adam dunn at the break for prospects and then letting him go for nothing.

I am almost positive that Dunn was a type A and they will get a 1st round draft pick for him.

edit-Dunn was a type A and Washington gets Chicago's 1st round pick and a sandwich pick (between the 1st and 2nd rounds). Essentially they get a 1st and 2nd round pick. Of course they may lose their own 1st rounder with the Werth signing which is another reason that was a bad deal.

[jenroypa]

they dont lose their first rd pick for Werth..Its protected so they lose their second rd to Philly..