Privman: Let the Horse of the Year Debate Begin

[prudery]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Pot kettle black. I still haven't heard your justification for why Blame shouldn't get HOY. Yours, not Doug's.

HELLLOOOOO ---I referenced Drugs' post to indicate that accomplishments are subjective, not to argue who got HOY.

If you read all my posts--and don't do me any favors--you might realize that I wasn't arguing HOY on your terms, I was saying the qualifications for HOY are subjective, and Blame dwarfed no one .

Taht is is ..

It can't be any simpler .

Really .

The original post indicated that I was taking umbrage in the fact that there were no set RULES for determining HOY--WTF ...

If I was justify anything,I was trying to justify subjectivity in the term accomplishment .

I really really can not make myself plainer ...

Any further queries will convince me I am dealing with a mammoth pudenda ..

That can't be right, can it ???


.

[ateamstupid]

The structure of your posts really reflects the your presence here. Unnecessary space and a lot of words to really say nothing. There's no way you can twist Zenyatta's year into being on par with Blame's. Period. By any measure. So your 'HOY is subjective' point has no relevance here. I'm not arguing with a tard like you who has nothing worthwhile to say and just wants to antagonize people who know more than you.

[Thunder Gulch]

I honestly can't believe the HOY debate is beginning, I thought it ended Saturday.

Best race by each was the classic and Blame beats Zenyatta. No matter the margin, the photo says he hit the wire first. ADVANTAGE BLAME

Race #2. Blame's Whitney win over QR, Musket, et al or Zenyatta's Vanity win over St. Trinians (who was hurt if you want to use the Battle Plan argument later). The Whitney was the best field of the year before the classic. ADVANTAGE BLAME

Race #3 Blame's Foster win over Battle Plan or Zenyatta's -what? Apple Blossom? The Foster wasn't a deep field, but Zenyatta's races after the aforementioned were so poor in quality it's hard to determine which field of allowance horses was better. The Foster is one of the most prestigious G1 races for older horses in America. ADVANTAGE BLAME

Races #4,5 Who knows at this point? Neither beat much or you could say Blame's JC Gold Cup loss gives the edge to Zenyatta. ADVANTAGE ZENYATTA for not losing.

In a nutshell, Blame won the two best races of the year and his only loss was in an open G1. Zenyatta's lone loss is better than Blame's, but his two great wins make it easy to see who deserves recognition.

[slotdirt]

DrugS and CSC in perfect agreement on the HOTY discussion. That should tell someone something.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

DrugS and CSC in perfect agreement on the HOTY discussion. That should tell someone something.

I don't think we're in that much agreement. If I had a vote - which I don't - I would piss it away on Uncle Mo as a form of protest.

I put the over/under on total number of votes Uncle Mo gets for Horse of the Year at 1.5

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't think we're in that much agreement. If I had a vote - which I don't - I would piss it away on Uncle Mo as a form of protest.

I put the over/under on total number of votes Uncle Mo gets for Horse of the Year at 1.5

I pegged you for a Presque Isle vote myself.

[CSC]

One thing I will add, Goldikova should not be HOY if anyone has any ideas.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I pegged you for a Presque Isle vote myself.

Chamberlin Bridge broke his maiden at Presque Isle for a maiden 25k claiming tag.

My haterd for turf sprint races knows no bounds. If they ever give an eclipse for Champion Turf Sprinter - I would abstain from using my non-existant vote every year.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

DrugS and CSC in perfect agreement on the HOTY discussion. That should tell someone something.

I edited, Blame should get it, but it's a nose difference. Hey I can give credit when I see a well argued point.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

DrugS and CSC in perfect agreement on the HOTY discussion. That should tell someone something.

[classhandicapper]

I hate the idea of these soft, selective, extra well spaced campaigns as much as the next guy, but I think we are going to have to get used to it.

Many trainers believe that spacing maximizes the chances of keeping a horse fresh for a full year and that really fast and tough races wear a horse down. Since the BC is now such a huge target, that gives them ample motivation to look for easy spots, to skip races, and to avoid tough ones. They also have opportunity to do so because there are many stakes around the country to look for those easier spots.

I'm not sure which of the two is the better horse based on the Classic. I'm still looking at the replay of the start of the race and other things. But I'm a huge Zenyatta fan and think being this good on two surfaces is rather mind boggling, but I'd still vote for Blame. The precedent is to vote the best older male unless the division wasn't sorted out or was very weak and someone else was a monster. It's also not typical to make a lot of subjective judgments about pace, trip, bias etc... and evaluate horses that way. Usually whoever wins on the track gets the edge.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I hate the idea of these soft, selective, extra well spaced campaigns as much as the next guy, but I think we are going to have to get used to it.

Many trainers believe that spacing maximizes the chances of keeping a horse fresh for a full year and that really fast and tough races wear a horse down. Since the BC is now such a huge target, that gives them ample motivation to look for easy spots, to skip races, and to avoid tough ones. They also have opportunity to do so because there are many stakes around the country to look for those easier spots.

Obviously - you're 100% right.

However, that doesn't mean the voters for the year end awards need to reward horses who are campaigned in this fashion solely because of how they performed in the Classic.

Go back to Awesome Again's perfect season in 1998 where he beat the toughest field ever assembled in BC Classic history and failed to win Horse of the Year - he was campaigned similarly to Blame.



He had the entrie winter off - came back against complete dogs in an easy race - stepped it up in solid editions of the Foster and Whitney for his next two. He won with the comment "hand ride" in every race that year but the Foster and BC Classic.

Even though it was the best field of horses ever assembled for a BC Classic - a lot of those big horses had very tough seasons and ran like they were over-the-top in that race.

Gentlemen put in a race similar to Life At Ten's performance Saturday. Skip Away struggled mightily. Silver Charm ran three times in the Strub Series, shipped to Dubai and won the World Cup - and made something like 3 or 4 different cross-country ships for races that year after he came back from Dubai. You don't see many horses do what Victory Gallop did anymore as far as running in all three triple crown races, the Haskell, the Travers, and BC Classic as a 3yo. Coronado's Quest made his 10th of 11 starts that season in the BC Classic. Running Stag was a machine, he ran in France, Germany, England, Dubai, Hong Kong, and America.

Blame's own sire Arch was in that race - he only managed to beat a single horse... the DNF Gentlemen.

I realize that HOY voters don't have other optins like they had in 1998 - but Blame is no Awesome Again either. Awesome Again was an extremely handy and tactical horse. When Tale of the Cat stole a 25 flat first quarter on the lead in the Whitney - Day just let him out a little and he shot right past ToftheC like nothing and outsprinted him down the backstretch. When the pace was strong in the Classic - he could take back and finsh strong.