Steve Davidowitz new site

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by 3kings

So with your 8th post you dug up a thread from July and then told us what a profitable know it all you are with both the stock market and horse racing. Well welcome because you can never have enough red-boarders on this site. I look forward to more of your posts telling us how great you actually are.

My post was hardly in good taste and I apologize for that, but I wasn't the one that more or less called me an idiot earlier in the thread based on an inaccurate recollection of a very old conversation elsewhere.

I'm like everyone else. Sometimes my emotions get the best of me.

You'll find that I'm generally modest, anxious to learn from others, easy to get along with, and never red board unless it's explicitly to analyze a race result in which I made no bet or lost as part of trying to learn something new.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

You'll find that I'm generally modest, anxious to learn from others, easy to get along with, and never red board unless it's explicitly to analyze a race result in which I made no bet or lost as part of trying to learn something new.

Can I call bulls.hit on this entire paragraph?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Can I call bulls.hit on this entire paragraph?

We have disagreed, but I thought 99% of the time our conversations were cordial even if somewhat frustrating.

I have objected to terms like zenyattatard (or whatever the term is) and other insulting dialogue because IMO there no reason for differences of opinion to get personal as it often has elsewhere (not from you though). I also eventually find conversations where extreme bias is present a waste of my time. Some things are subjective and debatable and others things are just plain silly. We both know how much bias there is on both sides of the debate elsewhere.

I have no skin in this game other than to bet on the outcome of a future race and perhaps pick up a insight or two. I am always looking for the center even when others (like you) don't think I am there.

I have always listened and respected what you've had to say. I have simply disagreed with some of it and thought we were basically OK despite that.

[Indian Charlie]

It's not the difference of opinion which causes people to ridicule the diehard Zenyatta fans.

It's the depths of insanity to which they'll sink to defend their position and their absolute refusal to even think that there might be merit in the idea that Zenyatta has been coddled and is not an all time great.

In fact, it's stuff like saying you must hate Zenyatta if you don't think she's an all time great that leads to the most ridicule that they so deservedly have earned.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

It's not the difference of opinion which causes people to ridicule the diehard Zenyatta fans.

It's the depths of insanity to which they'll sink to defend their position and their absolute refusal to even think that there might be merit in the idea that Zenyatta has been coddled and is not an all time great.

In fact, it's stuff like saying you must hate Zenyatta if you don't think she's an all time great that leads to the most ridicule that they so deservedly have earned.

I've also seen some extreme pro Zenyatta things that made me dizzy . I disagree with most of it.

I have no problem with people that think there are major questions about her ability on dirt or even the quality of horses in CA on synthetic. Obviously the mare division has been atrocious this year.

On occasion though, people say silly things like "she's slow".

In response to that it's possible to supply an endless amount of objective data on average paces, average winning times, the thoughts of multiple figure makers, the paces of her races, and a little common sense to more or less demonstrate that synthetic speed figures don't translate well to dirt. That means you have to go beyond speed figures to discuss her and the quality of performances across surfaces (even though IMO pace and final time figures are still a useful tool).

Some people do an admirable job of that even when I disagree with some of what they have to say.

Some people insist on saying "she's slow" even after presenting all that data etc.... IMHO that is an almost preposterous point of view because we don't know how fast she could run with a legitimate pace. What we know is that if she can run a 104-108 Beyer on synthetic (pre the adjustments Beyer made) with the typical slower synthetic paces, she can probably run a little faster than that with a more legitimate pace (as her entire record hints). Therefore, if she likes dirt as much as synthetic she might be 5 or more points faster on dirt. That's damn fast for a mare.

Beyond that, figure makers like "The Sheets" have her extremely fast.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I've seen some extreme pro Zenyatta things that make me dizzy . I disagree with most of it. I also have no problem with people that think there are major questions about her ability on dirt or even the quality of horses in CA on synthetic.

On occasion though, people say silly things like "she's slow".

In response to that it's possible to supply an endless amount of objective data on average paces, average winning times, the thoughts of multiple figure makers, the paces of her races, and a little common sense to more or less demonstrate that synthetic figures don't translate well to dirt. That means you have to go beyond speed figures to discuss her and the quality of performances in general across surfaces.

Some people do an admirable job of that even when I disagree with some of what they have to say.

Some people insist on saying "she's slow" even after presenting all the data etc.... IMHO that is a preposterous point of view because we don't know how fast she would run with a legitimate pace if she likes dirt as much. But we do know that if she can run a 108 Beyer on synthetic with the typical slower synthetic pace, if she likes dirt she might be 5 or more points faster on dirt and that's damn fast for a mare.

We will have the answer to this come breeders cup day.

[Split Rock]

I find it interesting that someone wouldn't consider Zenyatta an all time great. I don't really have in depth knowledge of her races, Beyers, competition, etc, but going 20 for 20 and winning the Breeders Cup Classic should be enough to validate greatness.

Saying otherwise is simply ridiculous over analyzing.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

We have disagreed, but I thought 99% of the time our conversations were cordial even if somewhat frustrating.

I have objected to terms like zenyattatard (or whatever the term is) and other insulting dialogue because IMO there no reason for differences of opinion to get personal as it often has elsewhere (not from you though). I also eventually find conversations where extreme bias is present a waste of my time. Some things are subjective and debatable and others things are just plain silly. We both know how much bias there is on both sides of the debate elsewhere.

I have no skin in this game other than to bet on the outcome of a future race and perhaps pick up a insight or two. I am always looking for the center even when others (like you) don't think I am there.

I have always listened and respected what you've had to say. I have simply disagreed with some of it and thought we were basically OK despite that.

I'm calling it again.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I'm calling it again.

Fine.

Then I will simply avoid conversation with you here and elsewhere.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Fine.

Then I will simply avoid conversation with you here and elsewhere.

You've said that before.