Track privitization

randallscott35 · #1 10-05-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

parsixfarms · #2 10-05-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

No, it's you who are missing the point. If government didn't have its hands so deep into racing's pockets, tracks probably wouldn't need VLTs to survive. The "current model" is broken because of the heavy "taxes" that government imposes on racing, unlike other gambling enterprises such as casinos. (That's why the "takeout" at those venues can be so much lower than at race tracks.) The reason NYRA has the highest handle in the country yet purses that are not commensurate with that handle is the huge "skim" going to government. Alex Waldrop spelled this out very well in testimony earlier this year to the NYS Senate Racing Committee.

randallscott35 · #3 10-05-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

No, it's you who are missing the point. If government didn't have its hands so deep into racing's pockets, tracks probably wouldn't need VLTs to survive. The "current model" is broken because of the heavy "taxes" that government imposes on racing, unlike other gambling enterprises such as casinos. (That's why the "takeout" at those venues can be so much lower than at race tracks.) The reason NYRA has the highest handle in the country yet purses that are not commensurate with that handle is the huge "skim" going to government. Alex Waldrop spelled this out very well in testimony earlier this year to the NYS Senate Racing Committee.

That skim is specific to issues within NY state, that is not the same issue in NJ. OTB issues, that have nothing to do with NJ issues which is what this thread started out as. You are trying to paint with a broad brush. The government is part of the problem, to say it is the whole problem in racing is untrue.

Cannon Shell · #4 10-05-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

That skim is specific to issues within NY state, that is not the same issue in NJ. OTB issues, that have nothing to do with NJ issues which is what this thread started out as. You are trying to paint with a broad brush. The government is part of the problem, to say it is the whole problem in racing is untrue.

They arent made out to be a problem because they are quite profitable and the state doesnt want to give them up.

Cannon Shell · #5 10-05-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

Aren't VLT's a form of gambling? Why should tracks be prevented from exploring other avenues of gambling when the current landscape already allows that in competiting states? Isn't the gov't restricting the types of gambling allowed at track in NJ? So if they want to play favorites with private gambling businesses, why shouldn't the racetrack get paid if they arent allowed to expand their menu? The state shouldnt be in the racetrack business because most states cant run any business profitably. But that doesn't mean that the racetracks aren't still hamstrung by the states decisions.

randallscott35 · #6 10-05-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Aren't VLT's a form of gambling? Why should tracks be prevented from exploring other avenues of gambling when the current landscape already allows that in competiting states? Isn't the gov't restricting the types of gambling allowed at track in NJ? So if they want to play favorites with private gambling businesses, why shouldn't the racetrack get paid if they arent allowed to expand their menu? The state shouldnt be in the racetrack business because most states cant run any business profitably. But that doesn't mean that the racetracks aren't still hamstrung by the states decisions.

Once again Chuck it is tiring to say the same thing over again. I was against the bailouts. I am against the state helping casinos, I am against the state helping the autos, I am against the state helping horse racing if it means losing millions of taxpayer dollars in the process. Why you continually change the subject is beyond me...

Explore away on VLTs. I'm at a loss for seeing how pulling a handle is helping boost the sport in any kind of long term way. I don't expect someone who works in the industry to turn down a handout.

Cannon Shell · #7 10-05-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Once again Chuck it is tiring to say the same thing over again. I was against the bailouts. I am against the state helping casinos, I am against the state helping the autos, I am against the state helping horse racing if it means losing millions of taxpayer dollars in the process. Why you continually change the subject is beyond me...

Explore away on VLTs. I'm at a loss for seeing how pulling a handle is helping boost the sport in any kind of long term way. I don't expect someone who works in the industry to turn down a handout.

You simply refuse to understand the issue. Companies and industry doesnt operate in a vacuum, they pay taxes and employ people as well. The "subsidies" that you refer to in NJ are directly related to VLT's. That is pretty obvious to us 'insiders'.

randallscott35 · #8 10-05-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You simply refuse to understand the issue. Companies and industry doesnt operate in a vacuum, they pay taxes and employ people as well. The "subsidies" that you refer to in NJ are directly related to VLT's. That is pretty obvious to us 'insiders'.

You aren't an insider. Your bread is buttered by the industry which in effect calls everything you would say on this into question.

Cannon Shell · #9 10-05-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You aren't an insider. Your bread is buttered by the industry which in effect calls everything you would say on this into question.

Seriously? Are you really this ignorant?

randallscott35 · #10 10-05-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Seriously? Are you really this ignorant?

Another excellent answer Chuck and yet another insult rather than a response. The thread is about NJ racing and our budgetary issues as a state.

If VLTs are so successful, why have horse racing at all? It is about where your gambling dollars are going to go. If you want to funnel VLT money into horse racing forever, I'm wondering where that business model ends. When VLTs are around every corner? When does the horse racing product on its own make money.