House Republicans Set to Unveil "The Pledge to America"

[Riot]

Companies, not government, create jobs.

You don't know that companies benefit from government incentives? Why do you think so many USA companies do not produce their products in the USA?

If an extension of tax cuts results in a deficit, then the spending is too high. Period.

That's the backwards way to look at it. What it really means is that our income was cut (tax cuts were given, so less income flowing to the government), without a resultant cut in our expenditures.

If your income goes to 3/4 what it is now, what do you have to do? Cut your spending, of course. But was excessive spending the cause of your no longer having enough income to pay your bills? No. It was your income cut that caused your financial deficit.

BTW, those tax cuts, when originally enacted, DID cause a huge deficit. Were you angry then? Were you calling for spending cuts then?

What was so ugly about the Contract with America? It was only a promise of what issues to bring up for a vote in the first 100 days of the 1994 session of Congress

That it was a resounding failure, a lie to the people.

Let me ask you a direct question, Joey: if the Bush tax cuts for people making over $250K/year are allowed to expire on schedule, our trillions of dollars of national deficit will be cut by 1/3 very quickly. With no changes to anything else in the budget. Are you for that, or against that? Yes or no?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

You don't know that companies benefit from government incentives? Why do you think so many USA companies do not produce their products in the USA?



That's the backwards way to look at it. What it really means is that our income was cut (tax cuts were given, so less income flowing to the government), without a resultant cut in our expenditures.

If your income goes to 3/4 what it is now, what do you have to do? Cut your spending, of course. But was excessive spending the cause of your no longer having enough income to pay your bills? No. It was your income cut that caused your financial deficit.

BTW, those tax cuts, when originally enacted, DID cause a huge deficit. Were you angry then? Were you calling for spending cuts then?



That it was a resounding failure, a lie to the people.

Let me ask you a direct question, Joey: if the Bush tax cuts for people making over $250K/year are allowed to expire on schedule, our trillions of dollars of national deficit will be cut by 1/3 very quickly. With no changes to anything else in the budget. Are you for that, or against that? Yes or no?

The spending being too high is not the backwards way to look at it. It's the only way. What do you do (or would you do) when your own personal budget is in the red? You can't hit up your employer for more money at will, so you cut spending until you do earn more. You optimize what you spend, eliminating frivolous things and less efficient returns on your money.

What you said in your direct question to me is false. You are assuming that people will work just as hard even though they are taxed more, receiving less profit. That is false. THAT is also the reason that employers move jobs outside the country in the first place. Spending needs to be CUT, like it or not.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

The spending being too high is not the backwards way to look at it. It's the only way. What do you do (or would you do) when your own personal budget is in the red? You can't hit up your employer for more money at will, so you cut spending until you do earn more. You optimize what you spend, eliminating frivolous things and less efficient returns on your money.

What you said in your direct question to me is false. You are assuming that people will work just as hard even though they are taxed more, receiving less profit. That is false. THAT is also the reason that employers move jobs outside the country in the first place. Spending needs to be CUT, like it or not.

The country had a certain amount of income (taxes)
Our representatives decreased that income (cut taxes - twice)
At the same time, our representatives did NOT cut spending. In fact, they not only kept spending at the previous level, they increased it.
Now we are getting deeper in the hole every day.

Those tax cuts are expiring. If the majority (population-wise, people affected) of those tax cuts are extended, and a very small percentage of those tax cuts are allowed to expire, our trillion-dollar deficit will become very small, very quickly.

Yes or no, Joey? Are you in favor of that, or not? Here is something to help you decide:



And if you don't want to do the above, please list what spending you would like to cut out of our budget, (the spending that should have been cut intially, when those tax cuts were enacted during the past decade), that will result in the same huge 1/3 deficit cut, just as quickly?

What you said in your direct question to me is false. You are assuming that people will work just as hard even though they are taxed more, receiving less profit. That is false. THAT is also the reason that employers move jobs outside the country in the first place. Spending needs to be CUT, like it or not.

No, it is not false. It has nothing at all to do with people working or any assumptions. It is simple math - increasing our income back to the levels it was, before the temporary tax cuts. Nothing else changing, with spending at the current level.

And yes, prudent budgeting ("spending cuts") is a good thing, too.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

The country had a certain amount of income (taxes)
Our representatives decreased that income (cut taxes - twice)
At the same time, our representatives did NOT cut spending. In fact, they not only kept spending at the previous level, they increased it.
Now we are getting deeper in the hole every day.

Those tax cuts are expiring. If the majority (population-wise, people affected) of those tax cuts are extended, and a very small percentage of those tax cuts are allowed to expire, our trillion-dollar deficit will become very small, very quickly.

Yes or no, Joey? Are you in favor of that, or not? Here is something to help you decide:



And if you don't want to do the above, please list what spending you would like to cut out of our budget, (the spending that should have been cut intially, when those tax cuts were enacted during the past decade), that will result in the same huge 1/3 deficit cut, just as quickly?



No, it is not false. It has nothing at all to do with people working or any assumptions. It is simple math - increasing our income back to the levels it was, before the temporary tax cuts. Nothing else changing, with spending at the current level.

And yes, prudent budgeting ("spending cuts") is a good thing, too.

Now who has it backwards? "increasing our income back to the levels it was, before the temporary tax cuts." Our income? You mean the government's? Thats OUR MONEY. The taxpayers' money. The government does not have the right to just spend whatever they want and expect the taxpayer to bear the burden.

Your huffington post graph assumes that we will spend the same amount. We will cut taxes, and SLASH spending. The different degree there is purposeful.

What do I want to cut? Foreign aid, welfare, waste, private social security so the government will quit stealing my money. Cut everything, and add back what we need. Do a budgetary reset. And minimize taxes in the process.

The math is not simple. It's dynamic. If we reduce the profits that the employers take home, they will relocate businesses or lay people off. They will not just keep working under the same conditions. They will change those conditions to make it profitable. The employers are the ones who have control. They will either make the money they think is worth the trouble, or they will close up.

[Riot]

Now who has it backwards? "increasing our income back to the levels it was, before the temporary tax cuts." Our income? You mean the government's? Thats OUR MONEY. The taxpayers' money. The government does not have the right to just spend whatever they want and expect the taxpayer to bear the burden.

"Our" as in "we the people" who pay that money, to people we elect - WE elect - as our proxy.

Your huffington post graph

No, it is not a HP graph. That is a CBO graph. Published in many places aside from HP.

assumes that we will spend the same amount. We will cut taxes, and SLASH spending. The different degree there is purposeful.

Yes, one-third of our deficit would be quickly eliminated, with us spending the same amount.

If you continue that 700-billion tax cut (which is exactly what you want, I assume?) - please give me, not only 700-billion in spending cuts to cover your new tax cuts (renewing the expiring cuts), but additional trillions in spending cuts to try to cut the current deficit we have.

What do I want to cut? Foreign aid, welfare, waste, private social security so the government will quit stealing my money. Cut everything, and add back what we need. Do a budgetary reset. And minimize taxes in the process.

Please add up "foreign aid, welfare, waste, private social security" and get back to me with a real dollar amount estimate. It sounds pretty in abstract

The math is not simple. It's dynamic.

It appears to be "magical", too!

If we reduce the profits that the employers take home, they will relocate businesses or lay people off. They will not just keep working under the same conditions. They will change those conditions to make it profitable. The employers are the ones who have control. They will either make the money they think is worth the trouble, or they will close up.

Well, I hate to point out to you, that we've just had some years of "those profits", (as the tax cuts you want to continue have actually been in existence, and the numbers are there to see) - and during that time joblessness soared, businesses closed, and millions were laid off.

That's what you want to continue?

[joeydb]

Yeah, because increasing taxes is really the answer...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Yeah, because allowing temporary tax cuts made to benefit the top 1% of earners expire is really the answer...

FTFY.

Here's some data on those tax cuts:
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/allbushcut.pdf


And here's some opinion:

So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?
http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.ns...9?OpenDocument

I want our trillion-dollar deficit 1/3 gone, quickly and fairly painlessly in the face of this recovery. I don't want to leave that mess to our grandchildren. Whoosh - easy to do. Bam. We still have 2/3 of it left to deal with, via spending cuts and, you know, not starting wars and stuff.