Parx Racing

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

It's aggravating.

I'm sure mediocre human athletes would love to compete for super-inflated purses in restricted competitions.

See how insane this business model is?

Why is it aggravating? From a handicapping perspective?

The competition is horrible there, if I see a horse ship out of PHA, he is automatically downgraded in my opinion, but from the ownership and training perspective, people actually have a chance to pay their bills, unless Juan Carlos Guerrero is in your race, and even then, running 2nd in any of these purses and you pay for your horse that month.

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by Scav

Why is it aggravating? From a handicapping perspective?

The competition is horrible there, if I see a horse ship out of PHA, he is automatically downgraded in my opinion, but from the ownership and training perspective, people actually have a chance to pay their bills, unless Juan Carlos Guerrero is in your race, and even then, running 2nd in any of these purses and you pay for your horse that month.

Actually agree with this, as we have some horses out of Philly, and it works, especially with a PA-bred. We have a 2YO PA-bred who hasn't run yet, but you win a MSW, for a 45K purse, we also get the 40% PA-bred bonus, then if we are lucky enough to say win a MSW and NW1X, we are out for like the next 2 years in the black.

And don't get me started on Juan Carlos Guerrero, one of the biggest cheats in the country and easily the biggest cheat at Philadelphia not named McCaslin/Vayders/Auwarter. Guerrero is worse than them, worse than Lake, worse than everyone. He's improving horses at super-trainer ala Marty Wolfson levels at Philly. He's such a cheat, it's a joke.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Actually agree with this, as we have some horses out of Philly, and it works, especially with a PA-bred. We have a 2YO PA-bred who hasn't run yet, but you win a MSW, for a 45K purse, we also get the 40% PA-bred bonus, then if we are lucky enough to say win a MSW and NW1X, we are out for like the next 2 years in the black.

And don't get me started on Juan Carlos Guerrero, one of the biggest cheats in the country and easily the biggest cheat at Philadelphia not named McCaslin/Vayders/Auwarter. Guerrero is worse than them, worse than Lake, worse than everyone. He's improving horses at super-trainer ala Marty Wolfson levels at Philly. He's such a cheat, it's a joke.

He puts those people to shame, I think I saw him in the winner circle the other day, he looks young, like mid to upper 20's. I am guessing he knows how to use the internet and find all the good stuff.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Scav

He puts those people to shame, I think I saw him in the winner circle the other day, he looks young, like mid to upper 20's. I am guessing he knows how to use the internet and find all the good stuff.

Remind you of Kirk Zaidie or Jamie Ness?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Remind you of Kirk Zaidie or Jamie Ness?

More zaidie like, he is unbelievable, mater of time before trouble finds him

[Duvalier]

It's kind of funny the only track to really take a stand against one of the "usual suspects" was Calder when they banned Ziadie. Most other tracks seem to welcome those type of guys with open arms since they fill races...seems like the track could care less what the perception is or how unbelievable their stats get. Just help fill up the cards.

Tough to really accuse these guys without any real evidence. Their horses obviously pass all the testing procedures. On the plus side...I bet they have a bunch of happy owners when they're withdrawing checks from the bookkeeper's office.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

It's kind of funny the only track to really take a stand against one of the "usual suspects" was Calder when they banned Ziadie. Most other tracks seem to welcome those type of guys with open arms since they fill races...seems like the track could care less what the perception is or how unbelievable their stats get. Just help fill up the cards.

Tough to really accuse these guys without any real evidence. Their horses obviously pass all the testing procedures. On the plus side...I bet they have a bunch of happy owners when they're withdrawing checks from the bookkeeper's office.

Evidence is 50% off the claim and a 50% winning percentage. It isn't like he is dropping them in class.

Philly's testing procedure's are lackluster at best.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

It's kind of funny the only track to really take a stand against one of the "usual suspects" was Calder when they banned Ziadie. Most other tracks seem to welcome those type of guys with open arms since they fill races...seems like the track could care less what the perception is or how unbelievable their stats get. Just help fill up the cards.

Tough to really accuse these guys without any real evidence. Their horses obviously pass all the testing procedures. On the plus side...I bet they have a bunch of happy owners when they're withdrawing checks from the bookkeeper's office.

The irony is that these guys actually depress the number of entries. People simply dont want to run against them and often wind up scratching, making the races even easier. If I were running a racetrack the first thing i would do is call a guy like Guererro in and say thanks for participating, we are not going to take your entries any longer because it is obvious that you are simply too good for our track. You have 24 hours to vacate, thanks for coming. A lot more effective than wasting time and money (though only about 2% of the time and money needed is being spent) chasing the newest hop.

The guy in charge of a racetrack is supposed to try to field competitive racing with good field size and quality that fits the purse structure. Guys like FCC or trainers like the usual suspects harm a racetracks business though most track execs don't seem to have any clue that this is so. I'm sure that we would get sued a few times but the track would almost certainly win.

I'm sure that this would piss some trainers/owners off but the vast majority of other owners, trainers, fans/gamblers, etc, would find a much better game without them. Of course this will never happen. Instead we have the geniuses in KY battling over the penalty phase of out of competition testing that will almost assuredly never actually catch anyone.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Scav

More zaidie like, he is unbelievable, mater of time before trouble finds him

How it already hasn't is laughable. He either has some incriminating pictures of some pretty high up people or he's simply a friggin horse whiperer. Can't even try to get fancy and toss his stock or you're ripping the ticket up and doing the helicopter toss of said ticket.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Actually agree with this, as we have some horses out of Philly, and it works, especially with a PA-bred. We have a 2YO PA-bred who hasn't run yet, but you win a MSW, for a 45K purse, we also get the 40% PA-bred bonus, then if we are lucky enough to say win a MSW and NW1X, we are out for like the next 2 years in the black.

And don't get me started on Juan Carlos Guerrero, one of the biggest cheats in the country and easily the biggest cheat at Philadelphia not named McCaslin/Vayders/Auwarter. Guerrero is worse than them, worse than Lake, worse than everyone. He's improving horses at super-trainer ala Marty Wolfson levels at Philly. He's such a cheat, it's a joke.

Prove it.

[MISTERGEE]

yes, how do you "ask" him to leave without evidence

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

yes, how do you "ask" him to leave without evidence

The "evidence" is pretty clear. The guy isn't on trial, the track doesnt need any "evidence" to deny racing priviliges.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Prove it.

LOL

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by jms62

Prove it.

It's a fact that Vayders had something like 10 positives before she was finally taken to court to be banned. Pennsylvania makes their reports well known although they need to police this better. Guerrero is an absolute cheat who needs to be Kirk Ziadied out of Philly Park asap.

[Pedigree Ann]

Tampa Bay ruled off 10 or so jocks and exercise riders without any evidence, and made it stick. None was ever even charged with anything, much less tried or convicted. Tracks have amazing authority that way.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Scav

The competition is horrible there, if I see a horse ship out of PHA, he is automatically downgraded in my opinion,

I can't say I see the logic in this.

Unless you're reffering specifically to PA bred races. Some of them bottom level and mid level open claiming races at Philly Park tend to be brutally tough races.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I can't say I see the logic in this.

Unless you're reffering specifically to PA bred races. Some of them bottom level and mid level open claiming races at Philly Park tend to be brutally tough races.

I don't disagree about the open races, but when they ship to a place like NY, I downgrade them.

Originally Posted by Scav

Why is it aggravating? From a handicapping perspective?

The competition is horrible there, if I see a horse ship out of PHA, he is automatically downgraded in my opinion, but from the ownership and training perspective, people actually have a chance to pay their bills, unless Juan Carlos Guerrero is in your race, and even then, running 2nd in any of these purses and you pay for your horse that month.

1. welfare for horsemen
2. the majority of slot money goes to home-bred program
3. home-breds suck a.ss
4. doesn't solve the problem of poor track management
5. testing is pathetic in most slot states
6. puts pressure on the states that matter in racing
7. etc.