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  #1  
Old 10-08-2006, 08:49 AM
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The Bid The Bid is offline
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Its amazing anyone can knock Bernardini. Hes incredible in every sense of the word. As a few posters have noted, the way he moves is unreal. He floats, he doesnt even get out of a gallop for Christ sake. Im sure Javier Castellano, when its all said and done, will tell the world Ghostzapper had nothing on this horse. I mean nothing. This is the kind of horse that makes people realize what a great horse is. This is the best horse since Spectacular Bid, no question about it, how anyone cant see that blows my mind. The last few years there have been some incredible animals come along, Lost in the fog, Henny, Bernardini, Discrete Cat, if those horses dont give you goosebumps, you need to bet football.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2006, 09:48 AM
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Bernardini looks great. Not as good as Mineshaft or LITF imo. I like their running styles much more. But again... thats me.
Bottom line: The horse has not been pushed. I hope he gets his chance to show how good he is.

Reminds me of Larry Holmes in boxing except unlike Larry, he will retire early. Holmes was a great fighter but he boxed AT THE WRONG TIME. There was no one to threaten him, to bring out how good he really was. How many people even know Larry Holmes? How many people know Ali, Frazier, Foreman? The last 3 showed greatness because they were tested. And I think Holmes would be mentioned with all of them if he ever had some competition in his prime.

We may have the same thing here in horse racing. I dont trust Lava Man to run well at Churchill. I dont trust this horse when he has to travel distances. And will that be Bernardini's only competition?

If Bernardini would have gone at Churchill and the Belmont like Smarty Jones, and lost like Smarty Jones did after being doubled teamed and set up. Then I would be more impressed. At least I could say the horse got pushed to the limit and never gave in... That it took Rock Hard Ten AND Jerry Bailey's suicidal act on Eddington to defeat him. If he was absolutely weighted down (the real meaning of handicap) and have a spectacular stretch battle against a once winning Perfect Drift I could say I saw something. And the comparison made is Bernardini beat a beatup Brother Derek in the Preakness...?

But it is NOT the horse's fault that I cant annoint him. Right runner, wrong time. I hope not. But the shed calls, so I personally will never know how good the horse really is. This is really what absolutely sucks. He is gone after the BCC. So all the people who like family trees can play little games with generational charts instead of watching the greatness of an athlete on the track. "I cant wait to see his babies to... uhhhhh, have babies?", please shoot these people somebody. They destroy RACING ON A TRACK.
Just hoping the BCC shows me something more than 4 horse fields and no competition so that the animal can show us how good he really is.

What may actually have worked against this horse sadly is Barbaro's breakdown.

Last edited by pgardn : 10-08-2006 at 10:20 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Bernardini looks great. Not as good as Mineshaft or LITF imo. I like their running styles much more. But again... thats me.
Bottom line: The horse has not been pushed. I hope he gets his chance to show how good he is.

Reminds me of Larry Holmes in boxing except unlike Larry, he will retire early. Holmes was a great fighter but he boxed AT THE WRONG TIME. There was no one to threaten him, to bring out how good he really was. How many people even know Larry Holmes? How many people know Ali, Frazier, Foreman? The last 3 showed greatness because they were tested. And I think Holmes would be mentioned with all of them if he ever had some competition in his prime.

We may have the same thing here in horse racing. I dont trust Lava Man to run well at Churchill. I dont trust this horse when he has to travel distances. And will that be Bernardini's only competition?

If Bernardini would have gone at Churchill and the Belmont like Smarty Jones, and lost like Smarty Jones did after being doubled teamed and set up. Then I would be more impressed. At least I could say the horse got pushed to the limit and never gave in... That it took Rock Hard Ten AND Jerry Bailey's suicidal act on Eddington to defeat him. If he was absolutely weighted down (the real meaning of handicap) and have a spectacular stretch battle against a once winning Perfect Drift I could say I saw something. And the comparison made is Bernardini beat a beatup Brother Derek in the Preakness...?

But it is NOT the horse's fault that I cant annoint him. Right runner, wrong time. I hope not. But the shed calls, so I personally will never know how good the horse really is. This is really what absolutely sucks. He is gone after the BCC. So all the people who like family trees can play little games with generational charts instead of watching the greatness of an athlete on the track. "I cant wait to see his babies to... uhhhhh, have babies?", please shoot these people somebody. They destroy RACING ON A TRACK.
Just hoping the BCC shows me something more than 4 horse fields and no competition so that the animal can show us how good he really is.

What may actually have worked against this horse sadly is Barbaro's breakdown.
Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones. This horse is the best horse since Spectacular Bid. If he wins the BC Classic, he will be #1 on my greatest of all time list. 3 year olds don't crush older horses like he did in the JCGC without even being hit with the whip. Wanderin Boy is no pushover. Invasor was all out to beat Wanderin Boy in the Pimlico Special and Bernardini ran by Wanderin Boy with utmost ease even though he let Wanderin Boy crawl through a 25 opening furlong. I don't need to see the horse run face to face with another horse. I know what he is. A horse that has the fire in his eyes like he does will win the battle. He will literally crush his opponent when they look him in the eye. He will turn them back and make them falter. Bernardini is one of the best moving horses that I have ever seen. In fact, he may bet the best. The competition is ducking the horse. They are afraid of him. Even Lava Man's connections said that Bernardini was scary. He is scary. There is no other way to put it. And he gets better with every race.

He probably won't be headed until he faces Discreet Cat in the Dubai World Cup next year. However, even Discreet Cat won't be a match for this horse at a mile and a quarter. The truth is that Bernardini may never get headed because he is just too good. And yes, I bank on both of them being in the Dubai World Cup if both remain healthy. I really don't think that Bernardini will retire next year.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:41 AM
Pointg5 Pointg5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones. This horse is the best horse since Spectacular Bid. If he wins the BC Classic, he will be #1 on my greatest of all time list. 3 year olds don't crush older horses like he did in the JCGC without even being hit with the whip. Wanderin Boy is no pushover. Invasor was all out to beat Wanderin Boy in the Pimlico Special and Bernardini ran by Wanderin Boy with utmost ease even though he let Wanderin Boy crawl through a 25 opening furlong. I don't need to see the horse run face to face with another horse. I know what he is. A horse that has the fire in his eyes like he does will win the battle. He will literally crush his opponent when they look him in the eye. He will turn them back and make them falter. Bernardini is one of the best moving horses that I have ever seen. In fact, he may bet the best. The competition is ducking the horse. They are afraid of him. Even Lava Man's connections said that Bernardini was scary. He is scary. There is no other way to put it. And he gets better with every race.

He probably won't be headed until he faces Discreet Cat in the Dubai World Cup next year. However, even Discreet Cat won't be a match for this horse at a mile and a quarter. The truth is that Bernardini may never get headed because he is just too good. And yes, I bank on both of them being in the Dubai World Cup if both remain healthy. I really don't think that Bernardini will retire next year.

Yeah, Smarty wasn't nearly as good as Bernardini, he only got hammered by two G1 winners through mind blowing fractions that left them in the dust only to have him run down by a length...

Bernardini fans are morphing UK Basketball fans, I admire and respect their program, because they are elite, but their fans are so misguided and over the top I can't stand them...
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:50 AM
Downthestretch55 Downthestretch55 is offline
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http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gal...Bernardini4BLa
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:55 AM
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kentuckyrosesinmay kentuckyrosesinmay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Thanks DTS. He is a beautiful, beautiful horse. I'm in complete awe of him. I've fallen head over heals for this horse. LOL. He is perfect in every racehorse aspect imaginable.
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:14 PM
Downthestretch55 Downthestretch55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
Thanks DTS. He is a beautiful, beautiful horse. I'm in complete awe of him. I've fallen head over heals for this horse. LOL. He is perfect in every racehorse aspect imaginable.
KY Rose,
At times I have a difficult time trying to figure what's going on in some folks' heads.
Like, we wait, wait, wish and hope that one like this comes along.
Then they bash.
Just enjoy this one.
Berna's don't come along that often.
If they don't appreciate him, it's really not your or my problem.
Their bashing will keep them from seeing.
He's the real deal. Finally, after all this time.
DTS
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
Yeah, Smarty wasn't nearly as good as Bernardini, he only got hammered by two G1 winners through mind blowing fractions that left them in the dust only to have him run down by a length...

Bernardini fans are morphing UK Basketball fans, I admire and respect their program, because they are elite, but their fans are so misguided and over the top I can't stand them...
You can't compare UK to Bernardini. He actually wins when it matters.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:56 AM
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Pedigree Ann Pedigree Ann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillow Pants
You can't compare UK to Bernardini. He actually wins when it matters.
What are you, some fan of that team in Lousyville? <Grin>

UK MS 1977, UK PhD 1986, wife of UK professor. I lived through a couple of NCAA championships.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2006, 02:59 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones.
1.MOver yes. Out of the gate to get position, not even close with Smarty.
2.bigger yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
3.faster NOOOOOO. NO flippin way.
4.better built yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
5.more talented. No way to tell, he has not been tested like Smarty. Three grueling triple crown races against a much better 3 yo old group. Talent includes heart. Again not Bernardinis fault.

So basically because you like how the horse looks, therefore he is better.

Bonzo post. There have been quite a few horses that looked like crap that were great runners. Too much into the visuals, forget performance.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2006, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
1.MOver yes. Out of the gate to get position, not even close with Smarty.
2.bigger yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
3.faster NOOOOOO. NO flippin way.
4.better built yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
5.more talented. No way to tell, he has not been tested like Smarty. Three grueling triple crown races against a much better 3 yo old group. Talent includes heart. Again not Bernardinis fault.

So basically because you like how the horse looks, therefore he is better.

Bonzo post. There have been quite a few horses that looked like crap that were great runners. Too much into the visuals, forget performance.
I'm into the way that both horses moved and how both horses performed on the track. You can tell the quality of the horse by watching them move and run in races. IMO, Bernardini was definitely better. IMO, Smarty Jones doesn't even compare to Bernardini. In fact, I also think that Barbaro, Afleet Alex, and Point Given were better horses than Smarty Jones. And I think that Bernardini could have beaten all of them, although Point Given may could have given him a run for his money. Point Given was also another very talented animal.

This is really pointless.

Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 10-08-2006 at 03:09 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2006, 03:21 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
I'm into the way that both horses moved and how both horses performed on the track. You can tell the quality of the horse by watching them move and run in races. IMO, Bernardini was definitely better. IMO, Smarty Jones doesn't even compare to Bernardini. In fact, I also think that Barbaro, Afleet Alex, and Point Given were better horses than Smarty Jones. And I think that Bernardini could have beaten all of them, although Point Given may could have given him a run for his money. Point Given was also another very talented animal.

This is really pointless.
Again into the looks. By your posts only Point Given could possibly be given the title. Point Given was a horribly unattentive horse in his early 3's. His derby was bad, showed his lack a complete lack of why he is on the track. His Preakness was a again sloppy, as he enjoyed looking at the crowd while winning. His Belmont was awesome. They got him to understand what he was supposed to do. And then his races after that were all very professional. So of course because he was big, bred well you think he moved well. Watch the Derby and the Preakness again and you will see how raw PG was at that time.

We are clearly wearing diff lenses and put emphasis on a very different part of the sport. I dont give a flying flip about how pretty a coat, or how well muscled a horse is until he has to show guts. Thats the difference here.
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:28 PM
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kentuckyrosesinmay kentuckyrosesinmay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Again into the looks. By your posts only Point Given could possibly be given the title. Point Given was a horribly unattentive horse in his early 3's. His derby was bad, showed his lack a complete lack of why he is on the track. His Preakness was a again sloppy, as he enjoyed looking at the crowd while winning. His Belmont was awesome. They got him to understand what he was supposed to do. And then his races after that were all very professional. So of course because he was big, bred well you think he moved well. Watch the Derby and the Preakness again and you will see how raw PG was at that time.

We are clearly wearing diff lenses and put emphasis on a very different part of the sport. I dont give a flying flip about how pretty a coat, or how well muscled a horse is until he has to show guts. Thats the difference here.
I never said that PG moved well. I said that he was a better horse than Smarty Jones. It is all about how the horses perform on the racetrack. That is why I don't understand how people can't recognize how great of a horse Bernardini is. His performances are flawless.
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Old 10-08-2006, 06:47 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
I'm into the way that both horses moved and how both horses performed on the track. You can tell the quality of the horse by watching them move and run in races. IMO, Bernardini was definitely better. IMO, Smarty Jones doesn't even compare to Bernardini. In fact, I also think that Barbaro, Afleet Alex, and Point Given were better horses than Smarty Jones. And I think that Bernardini could have beaten all of them, although Point Given may could have given him a run for his money. Point Given was also another very talented animal.

This is really pointless.
it is pointless, which is why i wonder at the exercise. each horse was/is very good, each had or has his strong points. whether it be running up an unbeaten streak, winning on two surfaces, running in and winning 12f races, or beating older horses....but to say bernardini is 'definitely' better is an exercise in futility, as it can't be proven. altho you might take all those others over smarty, i'm sure many could make an argument that they would take smarty over all the others! or point given...or barbaro for that matter.
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Old 10-08-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig188
it is pointless, which is why i wonder at the exercise. each horse was/is very good, each had or has his strong points. whether it be running up an unbeaten streak, winning on two surfaces, running in and winning 12f races, or beating older horses....but to say bernardini is 'definitely' better is an exercise in futility, as it can't be proven. altho you might take all those others over smarty, i'm sure many could make an argument that they would take smarty over all the others! or point given...or barbaro for that matter.
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  #16  
Old 10-08-2006, 03:10 PM
sumitas sumitas is offline
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the luck part for Bernie has been unlucky for his foes. Barbaro and Bluegrass Cat both suffering career ending injuries during the race. thus, these 2 were eliminated from each race and future challenges to him as well.
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  #17  
Old 10-08-2006, 03:10 PM
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that was a ok run by dini..after he wins the bc then he will get the respect from those who think hes not the goods ..all hes ever done is win..easy...he was going to get a gut check..from bluegrass..didnt happen..dylan t..didint happen..so when they find someone to go with him we will see...dont think that thiers any horse in the usa that can beat him..discreet cat...hmm discreet entry......good job yankees..your the green monkey of baseball..
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2006, 03:12 PM
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ANd I was a nonbeliever in Smarty to begin with. Here was the process.

1. Must win the Arkansas to get into the Derby, the pressure is on, will he fold, no. I thought he would.
2. The Derby. Sloppy track, could be a fluke. The field destroyed.
3. Preakness. Some of the good runners holding off till the Belmont. Crushes the field. Im saying Ok he is good.
4. BELMONT: Double teamed by two very very good horses, he crushes them both, he HOLDS form grudgingly letting Birdstone by, in one of the most wonderful displays of courage I have ever seen by a horse.

Smarty JOnes was shaking in his stall after the race. He could barely stand. The horse was magical. Small, breeding questionable compared to many others, so some people blow the performance off. THAT BELMONT WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST DISPLAYS OF EFFORT EVER.

Smarty is annointed by Pope pgardn at that point. One loss in his career. His last. AT 1 1/2 miles. Dont diss my Smarty. He got the chance to show his stuff. Lets hope Bernardini gets that chance by please letting him run at Four... This is just not a deep BCC year. Megs, Congaree, Pleasantly Perfect, a younger Perfect Drift, where are you...
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:24 PM
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kentuckyrosesinmay kentuckyrosesinmay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
ANd I was a nonbeliever in Smarty to begin with. Here was the process.

1. Must win the Arkansas to get into the Derby, the pressure is on, will he fold, no. I thought he would.
2. The Derby. Sloppy track, could be a fluke. The field destroyed.
3. Preakness. Some of the good runners holding off till the Belmont. Crushes the field. Im saying Ok he is good.
4. BELMONT: Double teamed by two very very good horses, he crushes them both, he HOLDS form grudgingly letting Birdstone by, in one of the most wonderful displays of courage I have ever seen by a horse.

Smarty JOnes was shaking in his stall after the race. He could barely stand. The horse was magical. Small, breeding questionable compared to many others, so some people blow the performance off. THAT BELMONT WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST DISPLAYS OF EFFORT EVER.

Smarty is annointed by Pope pgardn at that point. One loss in his career. His last. AT 1 1/2 miles. Dont diss my Smarty. He got the chance to show his stuff. Lets hope Bernardini gets that chance by please letting him run at Four... This is just not a deep BCC year. Megs, Congaree, Pleasantly Perfect, a younger Perfect Drift, where are you...
I wasn't dissing Smarty. I loved the horse too, but I was making the observation that he just wasn't as good as some of these other horses...

Oh, but we have Invasor, Sun King, Lava Man, and David Junior.
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:59 AM
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Thunder Gulch Thunder Gulch is offline
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No doubt Bernardini looks like a great one, but let's not overstate it at this point. If he thrashes Lava Man, Invasor, and others by open lengths on 11/4, then we can start figuring where he fits in history. He still hasn't run an off the chart fast race, ala Formal Gold or Spectacular Bid, but he hasn't been asked either, so who knows.
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