What Is The Fairest Turf Course?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

What's your pick?

I have no opinion because I never look that deep into things. I just look at a race and try and pick the winner and figure out the best way to make myself look like an idiot.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Scav

I have no opinion because I never look that deep into things. I just look at a race and try and pick the winner and figure out the best way to make myself look like an idiot.

Go down to the park 7th Heaven is playing that day. Arlington notified me by email, not who may be running but what band is playing and forgot; 'pony rides' as well

[tiggerv]

Colonial and Tampa

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

Colonial and Tampa

Sorry I have bet a lot of Tampa and think the turns are too tight to play that fairly.

[tiggerv]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Sorry I have bet a lot of Tampa and think the turns are too tight to play that fairly.

I find Tampa at 8/8.5F about as fair as it gets for Turf.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

I find Tampa at 8/8.5F about as fair as it gets for Turf.

A fair turf course shouldn't be dictated by the distance. If that was the case the European turn sprints would be fairest because some of them are run on a straightaway.

[the_fat_man]

TAM is the best place to play turf in the winter. The only problem with that course, and I've mentioned this on a number of occasions with zero effect, is that there's an open rail towards the end of the stretch (like many other courses). What they've done there, however, is cut the grass in an 'outward' manner. This results in the field coming out late stretch. Luckily, the stewards are finally on to this and have stopped DQing horses for drifting late. (see the Gio Ponti race)

[tiggerv]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

A fair turf course shouldn't be dictated by the distance. If that was the case the European turn sprints would be fairest because some of them are run on a straightaway.

Fair enough. I only pulled that distance because I find 8F a bit unfair because the outer gates are penalized. That isn't a reflection on the turf itself and whether it is speed favoring or not. I think that plays fair across all routes.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

Colonial and Tampa

The problem I have with CNL (and FG and AP, and some others) is that too often the leaders collapse very late. Your horse could be home on any other course but get run down the last few strides on these courses.

I suspected this was due to course issues of some sort. This was clarified by Desormeaux in the post race interview of the Virginia Derby. He spoke about the course(s) being uneven, how there are portions, in the stretch and elsewhere, that are lower than the rest of the course. And, how it was very important to keep Paddy O'Prado's head up while running over those portions so that he didn't bobble or lose his stride.

Speed favoring turf courses can be a real pain in the ass to handicap but at least they play consistently. It's courses like those mentioned above that are the most difficult to beat because you don't know how they'll pay and you can lose with the best horse very late.

[tiggerv]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

The problem I have with CNL (and FG and AP, and some others) is that too often the leaders collapse very late. Your horse could be home on any other course but get run down the last few strides on these courses.

I suspected this was due to course issues of some sort. This was clarified by Desormeaux in the post race interview of the Virginia Derby. He spoke about the course(s) being uneven, how there are portions, in the stretch and elsewhere, that are lower than the rest of the course. And, how it was very important to keep Paddy O'Prado's head up while running over those portions so that he didn't bobble or lose his stride.

Speed favoring turf courses can be a real pain in the ass to handicap but at least they play consistently. It's courses like those mentioned above that are the most difficult to beat because you don't know how they'll pay and you can lose with the best horse very late.

The Colonial inner seems to play extremely fair. It's hard to judge the outer because they run mostly sprints on it. The course may have been uneven since they run 100+ sprints and only about 20 routes on it.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

The Colonial inner seems to play extremely fair. It's hard to judge the outer because they run mostly sprints on it. The course may have been uneven since they run 100+ sprints and only about 20 routes on it.

A lot of late collapses at CNL. Nothing like having your horse do all the work and draw clear only to have the race fall completely apart 5 strides from the wire. Not saying it can't be beaten, just that there are 'easier' options. Of course, this has a lot to do with the poor quality jocks/horses. Clearly, this issue is not as pronounced with the better jocks and horses.