Zenyatta to the Beldame after Saturday

[Danzig]

had cali not mandated all the awt's, and the bc been held on dirt last fall, there's no doubt in my mind rachel would have run a different campaign, and been at the bc.

perhaps people aren't happy with the zenyatta camp because they said they were going to travel with her this year, and let her fans see her.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not sure you're understanding me, young RHT. They don't run on dirt in California. Why would a dirt horse ship to run on something other than dirt?

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

If California had dirt tracks, I'm 99 percent positive we would have already seen a Zenyatta-Rachel Alexandra matchup and nobody would have watched because both Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta would have lost at some point already.

I can't be 99% sure as you are, though I will say is it more likely. But not a chance Jackson would be in So Cal to face Zenyatta in the Clement Hirsch if that race was on dirt, that I am 99.99% sure.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Oh boy.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Its change

Our generation is fine with it, the old cranky people set in their ways just bitch and complain instead of educating themselves on it. It isn't like they can't just avoid it.

Bet you take a poll and people from 0-30 are fine with synthetics, people from 31-40 will be unfavored, and people 41+ the majority will hate it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

you keep saying they are a part of the game, in a few years time i don't feel that will be the case. there is a very real gulf between dirt and synthetics. even bob baffert prefers shipping a horse to the east and running on dirt. that's very, very telling. as is the lack of horses in california. the move to synthetics was supposed to address that problem yet it has not. yes, i know there are less owners-but why is cali the one taking the brunt of that?
so, altho there are synthetics, it doesn't mean the trainers want a part of it. todd pletcher used to ship out to cali fairly often. not any more. why do you think the chrb has now said they can go back to dirt? because it's a failed experiment.

and as for keeneland, they're part owner of an awt company. of course they're going to use it. awt seems to work in places without weather extremes. woodbine and keeneland are examples of that.

[slotdirt]

You know what I think is sad? That Rachel Alexandra, faults and all, has run at one fewer track this season (three) than Zenyatta has (four) in her entire career. How many top notch horses run 17 races and only manage to visit four different locales? Southern Image ran in as many places and that dang horse only started like eight times.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by CSC

Seeing how Jackson has mapped out her campaign in 2010, do you honestly believe he would ship her out to The Clement Hirsch to face Zenyatta if Delmar was a dirt track? I'm certainly not that gullable.

I don't know if it's fair to say that. Agreed that JJ will not win any popularity contests in the near future. But how do you know that any California races wouldn't be on their map if in fact they ran on dirt out there? California isn't in play for them so they scheduled, not well but accordingly. Who knows, maybe the BC would have been in play last year instead of the Woodward. It's not a surface they want to run her on, so they can't be blamed for not racing there.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Oh boy.

This is not as far fetched as you may believe, there is a anti synth bias that exists, you know this. We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

.other horses who are aimed at several races on the east coast, stay on the east coast. they don't ship back and forth. lookin at lucky for instance, he's in saratoga

.

Do you just make this stuff up? Lots of people who don't read will take your statement as a fact when its purely fantasy. Why would he go to Saratoga when the Travers was NEVER under consideration by MP and BB?

http://www.drf.com/news/lookin-lucky-recovering-illness

and the plan was to ship right back to Ca after the race till he got sick.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I don't know if it's fair to say that. Agreed that JJ will not win any popularity contests in the near future. But how do you know that any California races wouldn't be on their map if in fact they ran on dirt out there? California isn't in play for them so they scheduled, not well but accordingly. Who knows, maybe the BC would have been in play last year instead of the Woodward. It's not a surface they want to run her on, so they can't be blamed for not racing there.

Fair points. Mine is just my opinion alone, I think he has shown himself to be less than sporting than what was once believed.

[slotdirt]

Dang right there's an anti-synth bias. I hate the crap. I hate watching races on it. I hate how it freezes in the winter and melts in the summer. This is freaking America. We run on dirt and when that doesn't work, we run on grass, and when that doesn't work, maybe try jumping over a couple of fences. But ground up sneakers and tires? That's just un-American.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by CSC

We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

Not sure its Beyers fault.

What is he to do, use a projection system for every race? The surface does not yield times traditional to a parallel chart like dirt. Its very much like turf where his figures hold about the same water.

The bottom line is in general the very best grade 1 horses in Ca can compete with the best grade 1 horses in NY or Ky, just dont use the figures.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Do you just make this stuff up? Lots of people who don't read will take your statement as a fact when its purely fantasy. Why would he go to Saratoga when the Travers was NEVER under consideration by MP and BB?

http://www.drf.com/news/lookin-lucky-recovering-illness

and the plan was to ship right back to Ca after the race till he got sick.

no, i don't make up stuff. i read they had considered several options including the travers. i also read that since he's in saratoga, they're considering the woodward. i had also read that baffert was more interested in running on dirt, rather than synthetic. yes, he was sick, and yes, they have decided to remain there. i think that has more to do with the desire to stay on dirt than the illness.


from bloodhorse:

Baffert said it was a stroke of luck that he kept Lookin At Lucky at Monmouth Park following the Aug. 1 Haskell because it would have been a worse situation if the colt had been shipped while having a fever. Baffert had previously considered shipping Lookin At Lucky to Saratoga, although he was not fully committed to running in the Travers.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Scav

Its change

Our generation is fine with it, the old cranky people set in their ways just bitch and complain instead of educating themselves on it. It isn't like they can't just avoid it.

Bet you take a poll and people from 0-30 are fine with synthetics, people from 31-40 will be unfavored, and people 41+ the majority will hate it.

Dude, be serious for a second. Look at what Slotdirt is saying. The reason why dirt horses don't ship to California is the surface. That has nothing to do with people not accepting (or excepting) change. It's a third surface. Just like if the entire state if New York had only dirt races. You'd understand why the turf horses weren't shipping in to run.

Why people don't like synthetics for racing is an entirely different conversation.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

This is not as far fetched as you may believe, there is a anti synth bias that exists, you know this. We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

It's really far fetched and based on nothing.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Dude, be serious for a second. Look at what Slotdirt is saying. The reason why dirt horses don't ship to California is the surface. That has nothing to do with people not accepting (or excepting) change. It's a third surface. Just like if the entire state if New York had only dirt races. You'd understand why the turf horses weren't shipping in to run.

Why people don't like synthetics for racing is an entirely different conversation.

agree completely

though there is a perception that synthetic horses cant run on dirt and that synthetic horses are not fast, when its likely the opposite, most are being inhibited from running larger figures by synthetics.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

bob baffert:

"He broke fine and Martin eased him to the outside," Baffert said of the winner. "I knew we’d lose a little bit of ground, but that was the winning move.

“At the three-eighths pole, that’s when you know you’ve got a good horse because they’ll be pulling you. Martin was still sitting, but when he pushed the button, the horse really took off. You can’t make that move on synthetic, but on dirt it was the winning move. That’s really what I like to see -- running fast horses on fast tracks."
Baffert has always maintained that Lookin At Lucky was a better horse on dirt than on synthetic surfaces, which the colt has raced on for most of his career.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

bob baffert:

"He broke fine and Martin eased him to the outside," Baffert said of the winner. "I knew we’d lose a little bit of ground, but that was the winning move.

“At the three-eighths pole, that’s when you know you’ve got a good horse because they’ll be pulling you. Martin was still sitting, but when he pushed the button, the horse really took off. You can’t make that move on synthetic, but on dirt it was the winning move. That’s really what I like to see -- running fast horses on fast tracks."
Baffert has always maintained that Lookin At Lucky was a better horse on dirt than on synthetic surfaces, which the colt has raced on for most of his career.

your quote and rht's are apples and oranges

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's really far fetched and based on nothing.

Slotdirt just admitted he hates synth, but let's ignore that.