The degeneration of the sport over the last 15 years

[The Indomitable DrugS]

he breezed him into the ground?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

he breezed him into the ground?

Well, I think there was probably more to the story than just the tidbits we were fed by the racing press.

The Hollywood Derby halfway across the country, 15 days after the big BC effort is surely a curious spot if you plan on running the colt the following year. Whether he was injured in that race is unknown as far as we're concerned.

Also, a lot of it depends on your definition of "being run into the ground". Do you need a couple of horrific efforts (eg Munnings) to prove the point, or do you just need to run in every available spot and come out of the last one injured?

Would you say Thunder Gulch was run into the ground? You could argue that the Kentucky Cup race following the Travers was a bit extraneous and the colt came out of the Jockey Club Gold Cup with a fractured leg.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Also, a lot of it depends on your definition of "being run into the ground". Do you need a couple of horrific efforts (eg Munnings) to prove the point

Yes It's True might fit that bill.. he finished last in his final four races before they finally retired him..

Editor's Note was pretty awful when he came back in 1997, but they kept on running him.. his final race he was beaten almost 60 lths..

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Yes It's True might fit that bill.. he finished last in his final four races before they finally retired him..

Editor's Note was pretty awful when he came back in 1997, but they kept on running him.. his final race he was beaten almost 60 lths..

Yeah - YIT was kind of a Munnings like situation - but they let it go on for four races instead of 2. YIT went from being a freaky 3yo sprinter to a horse who couldn't beat 5k claimers. His King's Bishop was like Munnings Carter.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The Hollywood Derby halfway across the country, 15 days after the big BC effort is surely a curious spot if you plan on running the colt the following year.

Yeah ... I assumed he was retired ... hard to believe that a well bred son of Storm Cat that won two Classics and was 2nd in the BC Classic would be brought back at all at age 4.

Munnings has a major issue somewhere that they're missing ... he ran a 30 Beyer at CD on Derby day and stopped like he was shot well before the stretch while having inside position just off of a 25 and 50 pace today. I'm not sure he'd win a 5K claimer off the basis of those races. If he doesn't have a big issue ... he's sour as hell. I don't think he was run into the ground.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Munnings has a major issue somewhere that they're missing ... he ran a 30 Beyer at CD on Derby day and stopped like he was shot well before the stretch while having inside position just off of a 25 and 50 pace today. I'm not sure he'd win a 5K claimer off the basis of those races. If he doesn't have a big issue ... he's sour as hell. I don't think he was run into the ground.

Yeah, as far as Munnings go, it was a bad example. I was really only referring to his last couple of races as the type of meltdown that a more heavily campaigned horse might suffer after a long season.

I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but a decent Lukas example would be that Robert Lewis horse he buried on the Triple Crown trail a couple of years ago, I think the name was Going Wild, going from a 6f maiden at Santa Anita in December all the way to the Wood Memorial (he might have even run in the Lexington or Derby) with a race somewhere every 2-3 weeks.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yeah, as far as Munnings go, it was a bad example. I was really only referring to his last couple of races as the type of meltdown that a more heavily campaigned horse might suffer after a long season.

I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but a decent Lukas example would be that Robert Lewis horse he buried on the Triple Crown trail a couple of years ago, I think the name was Going Wild, going from a 6f maiden at Santa Anita in December all the way to the Wood Memorial (he might have even run in the Lexington or Derby) with a race somewhere every 2-3 weeks.

Yeah - Going Wild was the Sham Stakes winner when Giacomo had that wide trip - I think he may have been a slight post time favorite over Bellamy Road in the Wood Memorial ... where he was beaten a mile.

I just Googled him and he actually won a trio of stakes in New Mexico after Lukas had him.

Scrimshaw was brutally handled by Lukas. He beat Ghostzapper on opening day at SA in that real fast alw race ... won the Lexington off the layoff and injury .. and than he was soundly beat in all 3 triple crown events.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Scrimshaw was brutally handled by Lukas. He beat Ghostzapper on opening day at SA in that real fast alw race ...

I was actually in the stands for that race. Eye Of The Tiger, the eventual Derby 5th place finisher (at about 80-1) ran 3rd coming down from Golden Gate.