Rachel to Monmouth on July 24...

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I steadfastly have believed for months now that neither one will run in the BC Classic ... which is understandable - but the way they've been managed this year is a total joke.

There is no shame at all in losing - no shame at all. These horses are being managed is such a pathetic fashion - solely to reduce chance of defeat - that it's beyond lame.

At this point I'd rather watch Azeri v. Sightseek, Riboletta v. Beautiful Pleasure, or Sky Beauty vs. any number of Phipps fillies replays on a grainy Youtube upload than watch these two tarnished champions square off in a live race.

I hope One Dreamer comes out of retirement and beats them both in the Ladies Classic.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Have officially read it all now.

Something tells me you've skipped a few chapters here and there.

Either of these two horses would blow Sky Beauty off the track on three legs.

Maybe...but only if you could get either of the two to take on a horse like Sky Beauty in the first place.

Tarnished? What on earth is tarnished?

I thought you read everything?

"Tarnish" means to lose luster or become dull.

A synonym would be TAINT. Try Webster's if you can't find it. Either that, or use a mirror and hold it between your legs.

May be time to quote Don King here.

You can quote Don King all you want, but I think you just got beat down like Rodney.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by HomerS

All the crying about racing needs stars, well you have two right in front of your eyes.

They're not being campaigned like stars. That's the problem. They're stars this year because you say they are. Why don't you understand that yes, we appreciate seeing these horses in 2010, but no, we don't appreciate running them in the same cupcake races over and over? Seeing supposed stars go untested 364 days of the year isn't a whole lot better than seeing them on the farm, especially when compared to the campaigns of the distant and not-so-distant past.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by HomerS

What races should they be running in at this time of the year?

Are you saying they should be racing exclusively against males?

Nope. That's a straw man argument, and you should really stop using it. They've each had three races this year against inferior competition. They should be running in tougher races than the Clement Hirsch and a made-up ungraded Monmouth stake by now. No one said anything about a campaign exclusively against males, so stop being disingenuous and misrepresenting my argument. They've had enough warm-ups. True stars wouldn't still be facing cupcakes in August.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Im asking what races should they be running in. Against who? Will assume you will give them both a pass on their first race of the year so which races should they have run in the last two?

As far as Rachel Alexandra is concerned, what was wrong with either the Delaware Handicap or the Ruffian?

Aren't Life At Ten, Unrivaled Belle, and even Funny Moon more accomplished than Rachel Alexandra this year?

Did we really need a third race between July 17 and August 1 made up on the spot to further dilute the Eastern-based distaff pool?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

As far as Rachel Alexandra is concerned, what was wrong with either the Delaware Handicap or the Ruffian?

Aren't Life At Ten, Unrivaled Belle, and even Funny Moon more accomplished than Rachel Alexandra this year?

Did we really need a third race between July 17 and August 1 made up on the spot to further dilute the Eastern-based distaff pool?

Yes we did because MP made it happen. jess bought the filly for X mil now he cant bring his ball to the playing field he likes why? because Fn Delaware has a race, who cares about Delaware Park? Or maybe he should HAVE to race in the Ruffian and have ASS take a pay cut because NYRA isn't up to the task in 2010? Let it go...MP is the talk of the racing community, in a good way, they moved quick, struck when the iron was hot, and got their whale.. Ruffian Schmuffian.. She was a great horse doesnt mean her race has to be the be all and end all..

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Let it go...MP is the talk of the racing community, in a good way, they moved quick, struck when the iron was hot, and got their whale

You're the one who should be struck with a hot iron.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

As far as Rachel Alexandra is concerned, what was wrong with either the Delaware Handicap or the Ruffian?

Aren't Life At Ten, Unrivaled Belle, and even Funny Moon more accomplished than Rachel Alexandra this year?

Did we really need a third race between July 17 and August 1 made up on the spot to further dilute the Eastern-based distaff pool?

The irony in all of this is while Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta bob-and-weave big races in favor of lesser spots, there are other horses who are not ducking who could easily dust them when it comes time for end-of-the-year honors, Breeders' Cup not withstanding.

Also, there have been a few races which could have easily been dubbed the "Race of the Year" up to this point... Apple Blossom, Hollywood Gold Cup... but now that honor goes to the Whitney, with Blame vs. Quality Road. I'm more excited about that than seeing a 3-peat in the Clement and the Lady's Secret at MTH. Been there, done that.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The irony in all of this is while Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta bob-and-weave big races in favor of lesser spots, there are other horses who are not ducking who could easily dust them when it comes time for end-of-the-year honors, Breeders' Cup not withstanding.

Also, there have been a few races which could have easily been dubbed the "Race of the Year" up to this point... Apple Blossom, Hollywood Gold Cup... but now that honor goes to the Whitney, with Blame vs. Quality Road. I'm more excited about that than seeing a 3-peat in the Clement and the Lady's Secret at MTH. Been there, done that.

Yep Blame is packing them in at the turnstiles? Stubhub is crushed every time Blame's connections decide on his next race?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by HomerS

It was a legitimate question. Dont see how its a straw man argument. Trying to get to heart of the matter. Are you saying is a question. You are saying is not.

Im asking what races should they be running in. Against who? Will assume you will give them both a pass on their first race of the year so which races should they have run in the last two?

Why are you going back in time? They're still running against cupcakes and it's their respective fourth races of the year. It was a straw man argument, because I said absolutely nothing to suggest they should be running exclusively against males. All I said is they've been on deck long enough this year, step into the box already.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

What races should they be running in at this time of the year?

Are you saying they should be racing exclusively against males?

Was that a criteria for all fillies and mares of the past?

Has it occurred to you that connections of both know their horses and dont think they can withstand a campaign exclusively against males.

Did Personal Ensign have rigerous campaigns? Was Winning Colors run into the ground?

Dont mean to bombard with questions just think its a much more complex issue then is being made out to be. Holding these horses or their connections responsible for the trend in racing to less races is not really fair. Especially when you look at how often Rachel in particular ran last year.

Forget what I say. If they never run another race they go into the Hall of Fame. They are stars

This is laughable. This isnt complex, the connections make it complex. The industry isnt keeping these guys from running in top races and ducing each other (well i guess Monmouth would be complicit now). The idea that the sorry group of males is something to be feared is also laughable. It isn't as though we are asking them to run against Forgeo or Seattle Slew or Sunday Silence or Skip Away or just about anybody any good. Hell they cant even race against each other in filly races. What is your excuse for that?

Lady's Secret may have eventually been run into the ground but during the process of doing so she accomplished a hell of a lot against much rougher competition that these two cream puffs. And I keep wondering why Personal Ensign is being brought back into the conversation. There is a horse that absolutely didn't have to be brought back due to the fact she had her leg pinned back together. And because of that she had to have briefer campaigns than normal in her day. But of course we understood that back then because you know she had a bag full of screws in her leg. That would seem to be a touch more valid excuse than what we are being fed now.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Wow.

First of all I know what tarnished means. My objection was the foolishness in the way it was used. Thought that was clear.

Never heard it used in such a foolish manner.

It cracks me up. For years players been crying (and in many cases rightfully) about horses retiring prematurely. Here you have a situation where connections of both have NOTHING to gain by running their horses this year. Yet they both do so and have done nothing but get abuse. The second Zenyetta loses (should it happen) all the idiots will crow "see she isn't any good". We have already seen what losing has done to Rachel. People saying she is tarnished and others even trying to say she doesn't deserve LAST year;s HOY award.

There is just no perspective anymore. Bunch of old men sitting around on a porch drinking lemonade pissing and moaning about the good old days.
There are definitely many problems with racing today but these two great mares are nothing but positive. All the crying about racing needs stars, well you have two right in front of your eyes.

Let me ask you a question. What exactly did these owners have to lose when choosing to keep these fillies in training?

The idea that we should all be enthralled by watching these horses beat over matched competition in pretty meaningless races is ludicrous. Perhaps I am just not a "modern" enough fan but when perusing you tube watching races looking for great stretch runs it becomes painfully obvious how lame the sport has become and your chastising us is just further proof that the sports standards are now REALLY low.