Nick Canani at Arlington

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Don't numbers 2 and 3 suggest that some barns aren't "helping fill races"?

I can understand your point, that they are not entering in the 'correct' spot. But if you are entering 8 different horses in races, how isn't that helping out?

Specific to Normanruth, where do you go with him? He almost ran in the Hashin but caught a minor issue, and he needs a route of ground. They do not write a 50nw2. Anything less he would get claimed and that isn't the goal.

It isn't like he is a 7.5k claimer and could be put until a 5k or 10k claimer. I get that. He is an allowance horse.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Scav

I can understand your point, that they are not entering in the 'correct' spot. But if you are entering 8 different horses in races, how isn't that helping out?

Specific to Normanruth, where do you go with him? He almost ran in the Hashin but caught a minor issue, and he needs a route of ground. They do not write a 50nw2. Anything less he would get claimed and that isn't the goal.

It isn't like he is a 7.5k claimer and could be put until a 5k or 10k claimer. I get that. He is an allowance horse.

The guy entering 8 horses, as you said, is making an effort. I was trying to point out why are the races he's entering not going? Maybe brianspencer has a point saying that some barns are too "inactive".

The same can be said on the situation you describe with Normanruth. How does a first level allowance not fill?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The guy entering 8 horses, as you said, is making an effort. I was trying to point out why are the races he's entering not going? Maybe brianspencer has a point saying that some barns are too "inactive".

The same can be said on the situation you describe with Normanruth. How does a first level allowance not fill?

There are no horses here...they are all babies and nickel claimers. Guys that had 10 horses last year have 5, guys that had 20 have 10.

It might get better with Churchill closing but I doubt it, Ellis Park supposedly cut dates and raised purses, trying the Monmouth route, at least that is what I heard.

People are trying, they are putting 30 extras up a night and it isn't uncommon for them to add races at 11am when they see they are gonna be there to 7pm

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The guy entering 8 horses, as you said, is making an effort. I was trying to point out why are the races he's entering not going? Maybe brianspencer has a point saying that some barns are too "inactive".

The same can be said on the situation you describe with Normanruth. How does a first level allowance not fill?

All due respect to Brian, but what is the motivation for a barn to be "inactive'?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by GBBob

All due respect to Brian, but what is the motivation for a barn to be "inactive'?

In general:

Achieve high win and ITM percentages
Maximize time off between races
Land in softest spots possible

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

In general:

Achieve high win and ITM percentages
Maximize time off between races
Land in softest spots possible

I guess I can agree with you in theory, but this summer at AP has been a nightmare trying to get in a race, any race, unless you have a cheap claimer. There just isn't the opportunity to be that selective here. You run where you can and pray it fills.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I guess I can agree with you in theory, but this summer at AP has been a nightmare trying to get in a race, any race, unless you have a cheap claimer. There just isn't the opportunity to be that selective here. You run where you can and pray it fills.

Let me ask you, as I have no idea of who's stabled at Arlington:

I'm looking at the meet leaders and see that Ingrid Mason, Tom Amoss, and Danny Peitz have less than 30 starters each, whereas the average of other trainers seems to be around 60 or so.

Do the first 3 I mentioned have roughly the same number of horses stabled at AP as the others? If so, that's the kind of situation I'm talking about (ignoring the relative "types" of horses in each barn).

In CA, you could say that guys like John Shirreffs, Mike Puype, and perhaps Ron Ellis are "guilty" of this.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Let me ask you, as I have no idea of who's stabled at Arlington:

I'm looking at the meet leaders and see that Ingrid Mason, Tom Amoss, and Danny Peitz have less than 30 starters each, whereas the average of other trainers seems to be around 60 or so.

Do the first 3 I mentioned have roughly the same number of horses stabled at AP as the others? If so, that's the kind of situation I'm talking about (ignoring the relative "types" of horses in each barn).

In CA, you could say that guys like John Shirreffs, Mike Puype, and perhaps Ron Ellis are "guilty" of this.

Peitz probably has 24 horses here. Amoss maybe 16. Mason probably around 20, she trains for the guy that owns the hyperbaric chamber up here. He is a 'poor man' Calabrese, just on a different level. He claims these older class horses, throws them in the chamber forever and then they freak until their wheels fall off, she has also had two heart attacks

I think this might put things in perspective to show you this meet has been doomed from the start. Some horseman were given close to 20% MORE stalls then they requested. They were told to "see what you can do". Given MORE stalls before the meet even starts.....trainers were dumbfounded by this

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GBBob

There just isn't the opportunity to be that selective here. You run where you can and pray it fills.

Which is my point that Tom seems to have a very serious issue with. Not everyone is doing that, though Tom seems to think that every trainer is entering every horse he/she has every 14 days and races just aren't filling by some unmerciful act of god.

Are you kidding me? For the crazy nonsense in that first post back to me, you'd think Tom had never seen a racehorse, a racetrack, a condition book, and had no idea how horse racing works.

Luckily, I won't hold a couple bullsh*t posts against him because I know he's smarter than he's made himself seem tonight.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I can't tell you how bad I want to take sides in this one ... especially since it's a thread I started and I'm big on promoting my own ... it's how I roll and stuff .... but I really am not following this one well.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Which is my point that Tom seems to have a very serious issue with. Not everyone is doing that, though Tom seems to think that every trainer is entering every horse he/she has every 14 days and races just aren't filling by some unmerciful act of god.

Are you kidding me? For the crazy nonsense in that first post back to me, you'd think Tom had never seen a racehorse, a racetrack, a condition book, and had no idea how horse racing works.

Luckily, I won't hold a couple bullsh*t posts against him because I know he's smarter than he's made himself seem tonight.

You are just typing. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, period. You must have overlooked the last part when Bob states "Pray it fills"

Every guy that isn't named Canani or Catalano are struggling to pay their bills and they are hesitant to run?

You have no idea how many things actually have to go right before you can actually RUN a horse, let alone the one minor thing that can screw you for weeks.

People enter horses when they are ready to run, and until strangers start paying training bills, the help, feed man, then they can start questioning horseman when they should enter.

[The Bid]

The only motivation for inactivity is milking day bill.

Sucks when they don't fill and you're ready to go. You can always let them hustle the allowance horse into a 10000 2l. Just let me know before you do it!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Bid

The only motivation for inactivity is milking day bill.

Sucks when they don't fill and you're ready to go. You can always let them hustle the allowance horse into a 10000 2l. Just let me know before you do it!

And it isn't like they are getting rich on that day rate either. There is absolutely zero logic in the notion that horseman are not entering horses when they are ready to run.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Scav

And it isn't like they are getting rich on that day rate either. There is absolutely zero logic in the notion that horseman are not entering horses when they are ready to run.

unless you are pointing for a toga , keeneland meet..ect

[The Bid]

You're right

They may not get rich not running, but if you stand to lose a daybill horse by running a lot of guys will not run.

Just hypothetically if a trainer can put 10 bucks in his pocket per head, per day, and he/she has 15 horses..... Figure that trainer makes 150 a day, 1050 a week. Certainly not gonna get rich, but it may provide a motivation for not running as opposed to running and losing one.

I have seen that often

a small trainer has to set them up to gamble, or make some profit on daybill, or it's a pretty tough gig

[CSC]

I'll throw a name into this discussion, how are Maggi Moss and Thomas Amoss doing this meet?