I need to listen to ATR more often

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, I read your post. As I said before, I totally disagree with you. If I owned Zenyatta, I would not be wanting to face Rail Trip at Hollywood in a 4 horse field with no pace.

With regard to your other comment, facing females in California is usually not a serious challenge for her although it has been a couple of times.

She won the Classic last year. She appears to be just as good on the dirt as on synthetic. She looks to be as good this year as last year. Why wouldn't she be one of the horses to beat in the Classic again this year?

because she'll be facing top dirt horses?
yes, she won at 10f on synthetic. she won two dirt races, both restricted, neither at 10f. she won't be taking on a turfer or a dirt horse on synthetic, but dirt horses on dirt. it's got to make a difference.
now, she'll still be a top choice-but the one to beat? i hope we get to see!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because she'll be facing top dirt horses?
yes, she won at 10f on synthetic. she won two dirt races, both restricted, neither at 10f. she won't be taking on a turfer or a dirt horse on synthetic, but dirt horses on dirt. it's got to make a difference.
now, she'll still be a top choice-but the one to beat? i hope we get to see!

I didn't say she would be "the one to beat". I said she would be "one of the horses to beat".

10 furlongs will help her. She has a better chance of beating Quality Road at 10 furlongs than at 9 furlongs. I don't know anyone that would argue with that.

[Left Bank]

Let's see what Smooth Operator has to say about this comparison:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...nda&id=5295105

[DaTruth]

You can keep the win streaks. I would rather remember a horse for races like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FS0aimp4Y0

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

You can keep the win streaks. I would rather remember a horse for races like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FS0aimp4Y0

In the Champion Stakes, Pebbles dusted Helen Street, the dam of Street Cry.

Means she was better than Zenyatta.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Left Bank

Let's see what Smooth Operator has to say about this comparison:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...nda&id=5295105

Time for Goldilocks to step up and compete against the best horses in the biggest, richest, and most prestigious race in North America … the BCC.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Time for Goldilocks to step up and compete against the best horses in the biggest, richest, and most prestigious race in North America … the BCC.

If what we have here are the best horses than Euro racing should just be abolished.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by HomerS

I love a good debate but really dont understand why there is so much emotion about Zenyetta anymore. I thought HOY could have gone either way last year- would have given slight edge to RA. What has happened this year has no bearing on last year. But all that being said Zenyetta has proven herself time and again to be one of the all time greats. Just like I thought Rachel has to be considered one of the all time great fillies- jury out on how good she will be this year.To me I thought we were well past that.

I see people holding her to a different standard then other filles and mares from the past (who were running in pre-synthetic days). She hasnt lost. If she does lose I am sure you are going to have people come out and say see she isnt that good. As if all time greats dont lose. Again love a good debate. But not sure why people are still dug in against Zenyetta. Baffling. Just like baffling to hear people say Rachel shouldnt have won HOY based on this year.

There's no synthetic history to go on. Who do you compare her to?

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

There's no synthetic history to go on. Who do you compare her to?

Obviously you put her up there with synthetic greats like Tiago and Lava Man.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

There's no synthetic history to go on. Who do you compare her to?

There is no way I will compare her to the most famous american turf runner but your question sparked my curiosity and I found an interesting article about the origins of turf racing in the US.
http://www.governmentlaw.org/files/DryMonopole.pdf

[CSC]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

There's no synthetic history to go on. Who do you compare her to?

While it is fair to question her dirt form because really she hasn't raced on it enough to gauge whether she will be just as good or better on it, you can't take away what she has done on the "synthetics". People like to make the point she beat just turf horses in the classic, since turf horses handle synth just as good if not better, she then beat some pretty good turf, dirt, and synth runners in the BCC last year. Infact she made minced meat out of them. You can take issue she hasn't been tested on dirt, you can take issue with her campaign, but you cannot take issue with the field she beat last fall at SA, to do so you are ignoring all the Euro's that have fared well on synth the last 2 yrs at SA.

[slotdirt]

So, honest question, just for the sake of argument, but if Nashoba's Key hadn't passed on like she did, would Zenyatta still be 17-17?