I need to listen to ATR more often

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

The second-hour segment with Steve Davidowitz on Wednesday was excellent. A lesser host would have lightly scolded Davidowitz for his patently absurd opinion about Zenyatta's place among the distaff elites of the last 30 years, but Byk went for the kill and said exactly what needed to be said. You have to listen to it.

"I'm sick of the Rachel...stop bringing Rachel Alexandra into the equation, she's got nothing to do with it, she's got nothing to do with this conversation."

Unreal.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Personal Ensign's name came up in the conversation. Talk about a horse that didn't travel much: Personal Ensign had 13 lifetime races. Of those 13 lifetime races, 11 of them were in New York and 10 of them were at Belmont. Every race of her career was at Belmont except for three races. She ran once at Saratoga, once at Monmouth, and once at Churchill. That was it.

She never came out to the west coast, not even once. At least Zenyatta has gone back east a couple of times and is going to go back there again later this year.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/Person...ifetime_PP.pdf

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Personal Ensign's name came up in the conversation. Talk about a horse that didn't travel much: Personal Ensign had 13 lifetime races. Of those 13 lifetime races, 11 of them were in New York and 10 of them were at Belmont. Every race of her career was at Belmont except for three races. She ran once at Saratoga, once at Monmouth, and once at Churchill. That was it.

She never came out to the west coast, not even once. At least Zenyatta has gone back east a couple of times and is going to go back there again later this year.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/Person...ifetime_PP.pdf

You are seriously trying to compare these two situations?

If you notice PE's 2nd season of running after she had a ton of screws placed in her leg, lasted from Sept 6 to Oct 18th in which she managed to squeeze in 4 races.

Her 4 year old season she won 2 grade 1's at Belmont, went to Monmouth then traveled to Saratoga to run in a grade 1 against colts in the slop, knocked out 2 more grade 1's at Belmont in the fall (you might remember when the Belmont fall meeting was important?) and concluded the year and her career in the mud at CD.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are seriously trying to compare these two situations?

If you notice PE's 2nd season of running after she had a ton of screws placed in her leg, lasted from Sept 6 to Oct 18th in which she managed to squeeze in 4 races.

Her 4 year old season she won 2 grade 1's at Belmont, went to Monmouth then traveled to Saratoga to run in a grade 1 against colts in the slop, knocked out 2 more grade 1's at Belmont in the fall (you might remember when the Belmont fall meeting was important?) and concluded the year and her career in the mud at CD.

I'm just playing the devil's advocate. Out of Personal Ensign's 13 lifetime races, 10 of them were at Belmont and she never travelled out to the west coast.

I didn't hear people complaining that practically all her races were at Belmont.

The truth of the matter is, it is silly to knock either one of them.

In Zenyatta's 5 year old season she won 5 grade 1's including the BC Classic against the boys. This year she went to Oaklawn and won a grade 1 there. She has now won 8 grade 1's in a row.

[ateamstupid]

Davidowitz: "Personal Ensign ran down Winning Colors who was running her eyeballs out, just like Zenyatta ran down St Trinians who was running her eyeballs out."




I obviously respect his opinion, but his lack of perspective in this discussion is incredible.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I don't know if it's relevant to this discussion but here is an article about Zenyatta and Beyer numbers:

http://drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=113943

[ateamstupid]

Also, "I'm not putting a crown on her head." What? Didn't you just say she's better than Personal Ensign and Bayakoa? You also managed to mention her in the same breath as Secretariat, Picasso and Rembrandt before Byk got a word in. If that's not you crowning something, I don't think I want to know your idea of a coronation.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Davidowitz: "Personal Ensign ran down Winning Colors who was running her eyeballs out, just like Zenyatta ran down St Trinians who was running her eyeballs out."




I obviously respect his opinion, but his lack of perspective in this discussion is incredible.

I don't think he's lacking perspective at all. He's not saying that St Trinians is as good as Winning Colors. You obviously can't compare the two fillies. One of them won the Derby. The other is a grass/synthetic specialist.

When a filly wins the Derby, that obviously speaks for itself. Winning Colors was obviously a great filly. St Trinians can't be mentioned in the same breath as Winning Colors. But St Trinians does have a great turn of foot and she is a very tough filly on a synthetic track on her best day. She ran huge on Sunday. She was sprinting home that final 1/8th of a mile. She won't go down as an all-time great, but on her best day St Trininas can probably beat any filly or mare in the country right now (with the exception of Zenyatta) on a synthetic track. On Sunday, St Trinians was very hard to run down.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm just playing the devil's advocate. Out of Personal Ensign's 13 lifetime races, 10 of them were at Belmont and she never travelled out to the west coast.

I didn't hear people complaining that practically all her races were at Belmont.

The truth of the matter is, it is silly to knock either one of them.

In Zenyatta's 5 year old season she won 5 grade 1's including the BC Classic against the boys. This year she went to Oaklawn and won a grade 1 there. She has now won 8 grade 1's in a row.

Did PE ever run in the same race twice? It isnt silly to knock the schedule that Zenyatta's people have taken.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Did PE ever run in the same race twice? It isnt silly to knock the schedule that Zenyatta's people have taken.

Yes, she did. She ran in the Beldame twice.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, she did. She ran in the Beldame twice.

Shug just has no imagination...

[Cannon Shell]

The problem in a nutshell is that after 17 races we are still dealing with conjecture. If she were to run against so and so on a dry dirt track....If she were to ship east....if, if, if....

[2 Dollar Bill]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem in a nutshell is that after 17 races we are still dealing with conjecture. If she were to run against so and so on a dry dirt track....If she were to ship east....if, if, if....

Didnt Bill P. say.... "" You are what your record is "" ?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Did PE ever run in the same race twice? It isnt silly to knock the schedule that Zenyatta's people have taken.

By the way, I think the double standard is ridiculous. Zenyatta is going to go back east twice this year and yet people don't think that is enough.

Some of the New York horses never came out west. If one did come out west twice in a year, that would be considered a very ambitious campaign. Yet Zenyatta going back east twice this year is not enough.

I guess Zenyatta needs to fly back east 3 or 4 times this year. That would be a really smart way to get her to peak on BC day, just keep flying her back and forth from California to the east coast.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

By the way, I think the double standard is ridiculous. Zenyatta is going to go back east twice this year and yet people don't think that is enough.

Some of the New York horses never came out west. If one did come out west twice in a year, that would be considered a very ambitious campaign. Yet Zenyatta going back east twice this year is not enough.

I guess Zenyatta needs to fly back east 3 or 4 times this year. That would be a really smart way to get her to peak on BC day, just keep flying her back and forth from California to the east coast.

since when did arkansas and kentucky move to the east? last i looked, i was still in the central time zone....if i wish to go to louisville, i head north-north-east.
and i personally don't think heading to cali proves nearly as much as heading eastward(kentucky, louisiana, arkansas, illinois, as well as to the east coast, where you have new york, maryland and florida. west, encompasses california, and synthetic tracks only. that's one state versus seven right there.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

By the way, I think the double standard is ridiculous. Zenyatta is going to go back east twice this year and yet people don't think that is enough.

Some of the New York horses never came out west. If one did come out west twice in a year, that would be considered a very ambitious campaign. Yet Zenyatta going back east twice this year is not enough.

I guess Zenyatta needs to fly back east 3 or 4 times this year. That would be a really smart way to get her to peak on BC day, just keep flying her back and forth from California to the east coast.

Why would a trainer/owner want to run an eastern DIRT(the organic brown stuff) horse on tracks made out of rubber and a$$ lint? Zenyatta is great, in the BC she beat some 2nd string Euro turf horses and 1 or 2 actual DIRT(again, the organic brown stuff)horses. We all know what she has beaten in her other "glorified" allowance races so there is no need to try an argue that point anymore. There is no argument that she is not a very good horse with a decent career...but that is about all that it has been so far.

[Patrick333]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

By the way, I think the double standard is ridiculous. Zenyatta is going to go back east twice this year and yet people don't think that is enough.

Some of the New York horses never came out west. If one did come out west twice in a year, that would be considered a very ambitious campaign. Yet Zenyatta going back east twice this year is not enough.

I guess Zenyatta needs to fly back east 3 or 4 times this year. That would be a really smart way to get her to peak on BC day, just keep flying her back and forth from California to the east coast.

Some New York horses do go the Monmouth and Delaware. That's traveling isn't it?