Question for Arlington fans

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Here are the 17 horses claimed off of them at the meet so far:

Tatibitati claimed for $10K 6/12: Hasn't run back
Miss M V P claimed for $17.5K 6/11: Hasn't run back
G L Kiwi claimed for $5K 6/11: Hasn't run back
Exchanging Kisses claimed for $25K 6/10: Hasn't run back
Alarming Afleet claimed for $7.5K 6/6: Entered back MTO Friday
Light My Saphire claimed for $5K 6/5: Hasn't run back
Embers Glowing claimed for $16K 6/5: Hasn't run back
It's About Image claimed for $10K 6/3: Hasn't run back
Dino Dominic claimed for $5K 5/23: 5th in race from which he was claimed, 10th in next start 6/13 at same level
Jansdream claimed for $10K 5/22: Won conditoned N3L day of claim, last of 8 next out against NW1X allowance company at 11-1
Miles and Miles claimed for $5K 5/21: Entered on the lawn Friday on class hike
Wake Up Now claimed for $5K 5/14: 2nd next out when shipped to Fairmount
Stepaside claimed for $16K 5/13: Hasn't run back
Flying by the Pole claimed for $10K 5/13: 4th in conditioned N3L day of claim, last of 6 next out in $35K stakes race at Canterbury 5/31, then 5th against $40K N3L company at AP 6/11
Big Al claimed for $10K 5/9: 2nd against open 10K foes day of claim, 5th next out when hiked into $16K starter allowance
Sarah's Tiger claimed for $17.5K 5/6: 10th and 6th in next two starts against slightly tougher
Proud Expression claimed for $16K 5/2: 2nd against open $16K 3yos day of claim, last of 5 against 3-up $25K N3L claimers next out

Thanks for the info Brian. Doesn't look like any have really stepped up off of the claim...although most have only run back once or twice.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I may be told otherwise from my limited plays from Arlington this year, but Catalano is not as effective without the Calabrese angle, sure he still wins at a good rate but it's not as outerworldly as once was.

He isnt claiming much anymore, has a completely different type of barn now.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Thanks for the info Brian. Doesn't look like any have really stepped up off of the claim...although most have only run back once or twice.

Most have run in seemingly ridiculous spots post claim.

2 horses claimed out of the 10nw3 level ran back in a stake and an allowance race.

[MISTERGEE]

even so they will probably continue a downward spiral or just disapear

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

even so they will probably continue a downward spiral or just disapear

true but most horses claimed at these levels are in the same boat regardless of location or connections.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He isnt claiming much anymore, has a completely different type of barn now.

I don't want to put you in a difficult position, but don't you find Calabrese seems to move up trainer's? I don't remember kid Canani ever being so proficient that is until he started training for this stable, claiming or not Calabrese seems to have the 'edge' regardless who trains for him.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Most have run in seemingly ridiculous spots post claim.

2 horses claimed out of the 10nw3 level ran back in a stake and an allowance race.

How long is jail time in Illinois...before the new connections can run the horse back in the same spot or drop it even lower?

[MISTERGEE]

yes, but you will get them to nowhere faster by claiming off guys like Canani, Catalano etc

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't want to put you in a difficult position, but don't you find Calabrese seems to move up trainer's? I don't remember kid Canani ever being so proficient that is until he started training for this stable, claiming or not Calabrese seems to have the 'edge' regardless who trains for him.

Of course he does. Chuck and any decent trainer could win with 35% of his starters if he had a deep-pocketed owner who was willing to spend $35,000 on a claim just to drop it in for $10,000 six weeks later without starting it in between.

Not sure if you follow Arlington much, but that claim -> ridiculous drop probably covers about 80% of the entries coming from this team -- horses running for at least a 50% reduction in the tag for which they were claimed.

Doubt Chuck will get put in a difficult position by admitting he'd be thrilled to have an owner who didn't care about losing horses for less than he paid for them, didn't care about losing money over the course of the meet, and only wanted to win races at any cost all while still getting his day rate and claiming more horses to keep the barn full.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Of course he does. Chuck and any decent trainer could win with 35% of his starters if he had a deep-pocketed owner who was willing to spend $35,000 on a claim just to drop it in for $10,000 six weeks later without starting it in between.

Not sure if you follow Arlington much, but that claim -> ridiculous drop probably covers about 80% of the entries coming from this team -- horses running for at least a 50% reduction in the tag for which they were claimed.

Doubt Chuck will get put in a difficult position by admitting he'd be thrilled to have an owner who didn't care about losing horses for less than he paid for them, didn't care about losing money over the course of the meet, and only wanted to win races at any cost.

I don't watch Arlington religiously enough to know but I suspect I know the answer, I would be interested just how horses do once they leave the Calabrese barn, that to me is a much more useful and interesting stat as a capper.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't want to put you in a difficult position, but don't you find Calabrese seems to move up trainer's? I don't remember kid Canani ever being so proficient that is until he started training for this stable, claiming or not Calabrese seems to have the 'edge' regardless who trains for him.

You have an edge when your guy is willing to lose to win. Plus they have other "advantages" having nothing to do with substances or devices placed in or on horses. The FCC payroll may include many individuals.


They also are the the big fish in a little pond here. there really is no one to keep them honest. An owner with some cash and desire could give them a run for their money.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't watch Arlington religiously enough to know but I suspect I know the answer, I would be interested just how horses do once they leave the Calabrese barn, that to me is a much more useful and interesting stat as a capper.

It's your lucky day then -- that info is all above earlier in the thread.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

How long is jail time in Illinois...before the new connections can run the horse back in the same spot or drop it even lower?

I think it is 21 days you have to bump 25%, 10 more days you can run for the same price and on the 31st day run anywhere.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You have an edge when your guy is willing to lose to win. Plus they have other "advantages" having nothing to do with substances or devices placed in or on horses. The FCC payroll may include many individuals.


They also are the the big fish in a little pond here. there really is no one to keep them honest. An owner with some cash and desire could give them a run for their money.

Hello Michael Gill !

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You have an edge when your guy is willing to lose to win. Plus they have other "advantages" having nothing to do with substances or devices placed in or on horses. The FCC payroll may include many individuals.


They also are the the big fish in a little pond here. there really is no one to keep them honest. An owner with some cash and desire could give them a run for their money.

It's guys like this that make bettors look for other options, that is why I like Monmouth so much now, you have a bunch of cheaters and claimers out there. An equal playing field.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

Hello Michael Gill !

LOL

Gill would make it interesting...

Could see him and frank duking it out in the paddock

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

It's guys like this that make bettors look for other options, that is why I like Monmouth so much now, you have a bunch of cheaters and claimers out there. An equal playing field.

Agreed. What the track never get is the biggest outfits are usually impediments to their (the tracks) success.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's your lucky day then -- that info is all above earlier in the thread.

Useful, thanks.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by CSC

It's guys like this that make bettors look for other options, that is why I like Monmouth so much now, you have a bunch of cheaters and claimers out there.

If that's what they are doing...just entering horses at huge discounted prices to win races it's not cheating. At the same time I can see your point as far as wagering...having so many short priced favorites winning that much isn't really what players are looking for.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

If that's what they are doing...just entering horses at huge discounted prices to win races it's not cheating.

The info is helpful however, the ol don't take a horse that is once claimed off of Dutrow or Mullins is a very strong deterrent. I shouldn't have to tell any exp handicapper this.