first samurai

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Breeding to cheaper stallions a waste of money? LOL!
Tell that to the breeders that went to Distorted Humor when he was cheap.
Genetics are there, not the "hype", nor the dollar fees.
Breeding is all about genetics.

They are a waste of money if you have quality broodmares. Younger stallions that are cheap are worth taking a risk, but established cheap stallions are a waste of money.

If you broodmares are average than obviously you want cheaper stallions.

F-ing El Duque is hurt. F uck.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

They are a waste of money if you have quality broodmares. Younger stallions that are cheap are worth taking a risk, but established cheap stallions are a waste of money.

If you broodmares are average than obviously you want cheaper stallions.

F-ing El Duque is hurt. F uck.

Nobody takes a shot breeding a quality broodmare to a cheaper stallion. Who's to say you wouldn't end up with something decent? The fact is that nobody ever takes that route.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Nobody takes a shot breeding a quality broodmare to a cheaper stallion. Who's to say you wouldn't end up with something decent? The fact is that nobody ever takes that route.

we might see next year since the dam of Henny Hughes has a yearling by Zavata

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Nobody takes a shot breeding a quality broodmare to a cheaper stallion. Who's to say you wouldn't end up with something decent? The fact is that nobody ever takes that route.

What do you consider a quality broodmare? SW, GSW, SP,GSP,?
What is a cheaper stallion? $5000, $20000, $50000?

Just asking.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What do you consider a quality broodmare? SW, GSW, SP,GSP,?
What is a cheaper stallion? $5000, $20000, $50000?

Just asking.

To be completely honest, I don't know enough about the breeding business to determine what makes a quality broodmare. Do you know? How much blacktype makes a mare "quality?" I doubt they would breed a mare like Ashado (for example) to a "cheap" stallion, which I would consider $5,000 or below. I've seen a ton of nice stallions for under $5,000, but the offspring just doesn't sell for a whole lot. I know that Elusive Quality was considered "cheap" before Smarty. Now he goes for $100,000. Wasn't he like $10k before Smarty?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To be completely honest, I don't know enough about the breeding business to determine what makes a quality broodmare. Do you know? How much blacktype makes a mare "quality?" I doubt they would breed a mare like Ashado (for example) to a "cheap" stallion, which I would consider $5,000 or below. I've seen a ton of nice stallions for under $5,000, but the offspring just doesn't sell for a whole lot. I know that Elusive Quality was considered "cheap" before Smarty. Now he goes for $100,000. Wasn't he like $10k before Smarty?

He was not considered cheap by any means. I believe that he was in the 40-50k range.
Ashado would be considered to be a bit better than "quality".
Generally if a mare is a stakes winner, or graded stakes placed or has foaled a runner or runners that are the same they would be considered quality in my book.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He was not considered cheap by any means. I believe that he was in the 40-50k range.
Ashado would be considered to be a bit better than "quality".
Generally if a mare is a stakes winner, or graded stakes placed or has foaled a runner or runners that are the same they would be considered quality in my book.

"Elusive Quality, Smarty Jones' sire, has sired 13 other stakes winners from just two crops to race, a remarkable feat considering his stud career started at with a modest $10,000 stud fee his first year. The son of Gone West was the leading first-crop sire in North America for 2002, however, his top earner, Elusive City, was later disqualified from a pair of wins and when his earnings were taken out, Elusive Quality fell to third on the list. "

I knew that it was at one point $10k.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

"Elusive Quality, Smarty Jones' sire, has sired 13 other stakes winners from just two crops to race, a remarkable feat considering his stud career started at with a modest $10,000 stud fee his first year. The son of Gone West was the leading first-crop sire in North America for 2002, however, his top earner, Elusive City, was later disqualified from a pair of wins and when his earnings were taken out, Elusive Quality fell to third on the list. "

I knew that it was at one point $10k.

You are right. Waste of money those cheap sires!

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

"Elusive Quality, Smarty Jones' sire, has sired 13 other stakes winners from just two crops to race, a remarkable feat considering his stud career started at with a modest $10,000 stud fee his first year. The son of Gone West was the leading first-crop sire in North America for 2002, however, his top earner, Elusive City, was later disqualified from a pair of wins and when his earnings were taken out, Elusive Quality fell to third on the list. "

I knew that it was at one point $10k.

right, but the year that smarty turned three, EQ was already at 50-60k due to his earlier successes.
also, don't forget that storm cat started at 25k and then dropped from that, before hitting the big time. he's been at half a mill so long...seems like no big deal anymore!
the one i thought was CRAZY was ghostzapper starting at 200k. unheard of, and ridiculous IMO. of course not as ridiculous as actually getting it!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To be completely honest, I don't know enough about the breeding business to determine what makes a quality broodmare. Do you know? How much blacktype makes a mare "quality?" I doubt they would breed a mare like Ashado (for example) to a "cheap" stallion, which I would consider $5,000 or below. I've seen a ton of nice stallions for under $5,000, but the offspring just doesn't sell for a whole lot. I know that Elusive Quality was considered "cheap" before Smarty. Now he goes for $100,000. Wasn't he like $10k before Smarty?

i believe elusive quality was at 60k when smarty hit the scene. he is a desired 'sprinter/miler' , in the record books..and then was the top first year sire until elusive city got dq'd for gastrogard--which moved funny cides old man to the top spot. he went to 100k after smartys derby.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

They are a waste of money if you have quality broodmares. Younger stallions that are cheap are worth taking a risk, but established cheap stallions are a waste of money.

If you broodmares are average than obviously you want cheaper stallions.

F-ing El Duque is hurt. F uck.

I agree that established "cheap" stallions are a waste.
Believe me that my mares aren't "average".
All I was trying to say is that I don't look at the dollar costs before I look for genetics that play well to their lines. I also look for a sire that has strengths that compensate for their weaknesses.
Good value is there but it takes some searching.
No, I'm not breeding for the auctions. that's where you need to try to get back your costs before the "reserve not attained" comes calling.
Look at Timonium's sales and you'll see what I mean.