first samurai

randallscott35 · #1 10-03-2006, 09:36 AM

Hope I can own a mare someday and talk Lans into some sort of discount if he still has some say left with the farm....I can dream.

dalakhani · #2 10-03-2006, 09:41 AM

Someone help he out with this because I am certainly not the most knowledgable person in the way of breeding.

Do they really think he will sell at 40k? Im sure they know but i cant understand why people would send their mares to FS at that price.

He was talented but had serious soundness issues.

paisjpq · #3 10-03-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Someone help he out with this because I am certainly not the most knowledgable person in the way of breeding.

Do they really think he will sell at 40k? Im sure they know but i cant understand why people would send their mares to FS at that price.

He was talented but had serious soundness issues.

brilliant 2YO season by a leading sire who stands for 300K last I looked...coupled with his very attractive conformation...his book will be full.

#4 10-03-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

brilliant 2YO season by a leading sire who stands for 300K last I looked...coupled with his very attractive conformation...his book will be full.

Book will be full quite soon I suspect.

paisjpq · #5 10-03-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Book will be full quite soon I suspect.

agreed...be interesting to see some of the names he gets...I like it when the farm publishes those

#6 10-03-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

agreed...be interesting to see some of the names he gets...I like it when the farm publishes those

Claiborne may have slipped in the hierarchy as of late in their stallion roster not being what it once was, but they still have tremendous clout and connections as far as making a stallion.
Just about every brrodmare they own has black type in every generation, every friggin one. You ever look at the female family extended pedigree of one of their mares? Geez.
In addition people like the Phipps often board or send mares to Claiborne to be bred.
Its much easier to make a stallion the way they do it, which is the proper way, than it is to make one at a fledgling operation, no matter how much cash is behind it.
Its hard to make a stallion at a place that is relatively new because they usually lack sufficient brodmares to gurantee that the horse will have a nice book through and though. Broodmares are more valuable than sires as a whole right now because of the tremendous amount of mares that have been purchased by Coolmore, the Japanese, and the Sheikhs who are now permanently the property of those operations.
When you have a farm that has the ammo to stand a horse and get him to good mares to start him off right, it gives you a big edge.

Pointg5 · #7 10-03-2006, 10:32 AM

Drove past Claiborne on Saturday, what a beautiful drive, if I was a horse I would want to be there...Saw many young ones running around in the fields...

Sightseek · #8 10-03-2006, 10:21 AM

He is my pick for first year sire. Lots of potential in that pedigree and I think he could sire a variety of runners just like his sire. Darn good crop of 3 year olds this year, too bad he didn't get back on the track.

paisjpq · #9 10-03-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

He is my pick for first year sire. Lots of potential in that pedigree and I think he could sire a variety of runners just like his sire. Darn good crop of 3 year olds this year, too bad he didn't get back on the track.

he also may ultimately benefit from the godolphin coolmore feud...the sheiks won't go to GC or buy his offspring but I bet they still want some of his blood...if so 1st Sam's babies could bring $$$$

#10 10-03-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

he also may ultimately benefit from the godolphin coolmore feud...the sheiks won't go to GC or buy his offspring but I bet they still want some of his blood...if so 1st Sam's babies could bring $$$$

Bingo!!!
Breeders know that they can't hit a home run with Giant offspring with the sheikhs, but may hit one with one of his sons standing someplace else.

Cannon Shell · #11 10-03-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

he also may ultimately benefit from the godolphin coolmore feud...the sheiks won't go to GC or buy his offspring but I bet they still want some of his blood...if so 1st Sam's babies could bring $$$$

I'm not sure but if I had to guess I would say sons of coolmore stallions may be "off limits" too. Ol Sheikh Mo is still pretty pissed off.

Scav · #12 10-03-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Book will be full quite soon I suspect.

for 40k, he will get some good mares at that price, given the crazy upside he has. You put speed on the bottom of his pedigree and you will get a sprinter, you put stamina down there and you will get a stayer, and what is even better is that his should run the same on both surfaces, if not better on the lawn

#13 10-03-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Someone help he out with this because I am certainly not the most knowledgable person in the way of breeding.

Do they really think he will sell at 40k? Im sure they know but i cant understand why people would send their mares to FS at that price.

He was talented but had serious soundness issues.

He did not have major soundness issues. He had some minor back end problems and a broken rib, things that can happen to any horse through racing wear. The decision was made to retire him because by the time he was straightened out it would have been too late to get him to any races that mattered this year that it was conceivable he could win. Once it was apparent he couldnt make the King's Bishop, that was the end. Since you appear to have the "inside track" on what his issues were, perhaps you could tell us what those issues were.
He was the first son of the very coveted sire Giants Causeway to win a grade one on dirt, and perhaps the speediest son of Ginats Causeway ever.
His mare is from a family that all were very fast as well, as well as stakes winners.
Its VERY rare to find a precocious and speedy son of Giants Causeway.

dalakhani · #14 10-03-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

He did not have major soundness issues. He had some minor back end problems and a broken rib, things that can happen to any horse through racing wear. The decision was made to retire him because by the time he was straightened out it would have been too late to get him to any races that mattered this year that it was conceivable he could win. Once it was apparent he couldnt make the King's Bishop, that was the end. Since you appear to have the "inside track" on what his issues were, perhaps you could tell us what those issues were.He was the first son of the very coveted sire Giants Causeway to win a grade one on dirt, and perhaps the speediest son of Ginats Causeway ever.
His mare is from a family that all were very fast as well, as well as stakes winners.
Its VERY rare to find a precocious and speedy son of Giants Causeway.

Who said anything about having an "inside track" numb nutz? I was asking a question and you so graciously answered it. Thanks.

#15 10-03-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Who said anything about having an "inside track" numb nutz? I was asking a question and you so graciously answered it. Thanks.

You didn't ask a question, you made a statement, and an incorrect one at that. I felt the need to admonish it.
Major soundness issues would be attributed to horses who have chronic shins, ankles, knees, etc.
First Sam was a very big and heavy horse when he first started out.
After breaking his maiden at CD in July, he then ran in an allowance race and the Hopeful in about a 20 day span. He then won the Champagne and ran back in the BC only 3 weeks later suffering his first loss. He ran only three times at age 3, but those starts were fairly close together in a time period. He never missed a scheduled start, not one, and his only layoff ever was his last one. The broken rib was obviously a freak thing, and breeders don't worry about horses who had broken ribs, lol.
His last start was with teh broken rib and very often a horse running an entire race with a problem will cause himself damage because hes not running straight and true, he or she is running in a very choppy manner to try and "get away from" or compensate for the pain.
Horses often emerge from these races with a variety of problems, many of them muscular(which was the case here, no fractures or chips) from running in such an awkward manner.
By the time they got a timetable on how long it would take to straighten him out, they realized that it was impossible to have him ready to run in any races of consequence at the end of the year. So they retired him. Contrary to popular belief there wasn't any pressure on the owners to retire him. They did not sell the horse before the Blue Grass, only 25% of the breeding rights. They retained the other 75% to sell at a later date or keep a percentage of as they saw fit. Claiborne was never calling the shots on this horse, the owners were.

paisjpq · #16 10-03-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag

how did he break his rib...of course he would run badly because of it...how did they not know he had a broken rib b4 the race (did he do it in the middle of the night when noone was looking?)...to avoid another immediate post, what is this godolphin boycott i've seen a few references to?

the assumption is that he hit the gate on his way out and broke it at the start.

Swap Fliparoo · #17 10-03-2006, 11:14 PM

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd...nday%20silence

sons of S.S. standing in the USA... ignore the $15,000 colorado stallion, they only breed him to about two home mares... seen the ads for the new one coming to Adena - looks promising. Wonder what the fee will be.

#18 10-04-2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag

how did he break his rib...of course he would run badly because of it...how did they not know he had a broken rib b4 the race (did he do it in the middle of the night when noone was looking?)...to avoid another immediate post, what is this godolphin boycott i've seen a few references to?

first samurai was fractious in the gate at the bluegrass.

the godolphin boycott....godolphin is tee'd off at coolmore, won't touch their stuff at auction, and outbids them on a regular basis at the sales. why? because they can!

Danzig · #19 10-03-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Someone help he out with this because I am certainly not the most knowledgable person in the way of breeding.

Do they really think he will sell at 40k? Im sure they know but i cant understand why people would send their mares to FS at that price.

He was talented but had serious soundness issues.

first i heard that he was unsound....he did suffer an injury in the bluegrass. also, he's giant's causeways first graded winner (grade one i believe) on the dirt. one of the reasons i feel that the iron horse made the leap up to 300k--samurai proved that his old man wasn't just a turf sire.

sumitas · #20 10-03-2006, 07:12 PM

i don't think Behaving Badly and Showing Up have anything to be ashamed of in that their sires are Pioneering ($3,500) and Strategic Mission ($3,000).
Please get real and save your dumb sales pitches for the auctions.