Lawyer Ron Goes to Pletcher..

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I don't know how the selection of exercise riders works but it seems to me if I'm not an elite jockey and have a top horse that is having some issues that I might show up in the morning to try and work things out before I lose that mount. Call me crazy for having common sense but it doesn't seem reasonable to me to give McKee a pass for the horse's issues if he was too lazy to show up in the morning to work with him.

You don't get it. Its not just the works, its the gallops and two minute licks, etc.
Jocks just don't do that, they don't gallop every morning and furthermore its the trainers call as to what the horse will do. Its not just how its done, its whats done.
People are creatures of habit, they tend to use the same methods over and over again. In Holthus's case his methods are certainly top notch because each and every year he has very good horses who run very well, the guys obviously a very good trainer, I don't think thats even remotely debatable.
But not every trainer fits every horse, just like not every coach fits every team in football. Tom Coughling of the Giants is obviously a very good coach if you take a look at what hes accomplished in his career. But the Giants and he have never developed a good rapport and hes trying to force them to play a style that doesn't fit the strengths and weaknesses that the Giants have. he also refuses to change his methods. Hes a good coach, but now priven to be the wrong coach for those particular guys.
It can work like that with trainers as well, even with the best trainers. Their methods don't always work the best with every horse. The horse is rank and after that many starts its become obvious that Holthus couldn't overcome that. So, the next guy gets a chance to. Perhaps Pletcher will fail to take that edge off him as well and he will continue to run off with the jock, but I would say that an attempt had to be made.
Noone anywhere is gonna say that Holthus isnt a very good and respected trainer, because thats exactly what he is.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You don't get it. Its not just the works, its the gallops and two minute licks, etc.
Jocks just don't do that, they don't gallop every morning and furthermore its the trainers call as to what the horse will do. Its not just how its done, its whats done.
People are creatures of habit, they tend to use the same methods over and over again. In Holthus's case his methods are certainly top notch because each and every year he has very good horses who run very well, the guys obviously a very good trainer, I don't think thats even remotely debatable.
But not every trainer fits every horse, just like not every coach fits every team in football. Tom Coughling of the Giants is obviously a very good coach if you take a look at what hes accomplished in his career. But the Giants and he have never developed a good rapport and hes trying to force them to play a style that doesn't fit the strengths and weaknesses that the Giants have. he also refuses to change his methods. Hes a good coach, but now priven to be the wrong coach for those particular guys.
It can work like that with trainers as well, even with the best trainers. Their methods don't always work the best with every horse. The horse is rank and after that many starts its become obvious that Holthus couldn't overcome that. So, the next guy gets a chance to. Perhaps Pletcher will fail to take that edge off him as well and he will continue to run off with the jock, but I would say that an attempt had to be made.
Noone anywhere is gonna say that Holthus isnt a very good and respected trainer, because thats exactly what he is.

then why was he transferred, the horse would of won if Leparoux or Russell Baze were up

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

then why was he transferred, the horse would of won if Leparoux or Russell Baze were up

He was transferred because the elitist ******* new owners overpaid and want to recoup some of their cash while he's still running. Unfortunately for them LR isn't going to make much $$$ with Pletcher if they insist on running him with the best.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

He was transferred because the elitist ******* new owners overpaid and want to recoup some of their cash while he's still running. Unfortunately for them LR isn't going to make much $$$ with Pletcher if they insist on running him with the best.

I wonder how much of a ****ing elitist he was when everyone got all their money and commissions from the guy when he bought the horse?
Get real.
And Seattle it really would help if you ever once went to a racetrack in the morning, even once in your life, and saw how training takes place. Leparoux or baze? What exactly does that mean? They aren't even in the elite class of jocks, and it wouldnt matter if they were.
The problem with knowitall kids who have never even seen horses train in the morning is that they think they are cars, and the jockey just steps on the gas or hits the brakes.
Heres a newsflash, they aren't. What they are is huge animals who aren't overall very bright. The only way to teach a horse anything is by repitition. They don't just pick things up that easily(most of them). WHy do you think that some are still bad gate actors even after a year of racing?
Please spare me the jockey hero worship bs, its completely erroneous to think that a jockey can just change in the afternoon what a horse learns in the mornings because he wants to. The fact that the horse weighs 1000 pounds and has a mind of his own sorta gets in the way of that.
Why not ask Honu how hard it is to get one of these horses whose speed crazy to learn how to relax? Idiots who worshiop jockeys think gee, why not just take a hold of him and ask him to run late!!! DUH!!!! Gee, Seattle, I suppose noone ever thought of that huh? Dope. If it were that easy, every horse would be a perfect ride.
The problem with a rank horse is that while you are grabbing them, they are struggling with all their might to try and run and STILL using all the energy they would be using if they were allowed to run, but even WORSE, if you are grabbing them while they are trying so hard to run off with you instead of letting them run, when you turn for home you have a tired horse who is 5 lengths behind instead of 5 lengths in front.
It takes a lot of work in the mornings to get one to efficiently change his style effectively. Some just chill out a bit and become easier to rate as they get older and bit more relaxed.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I wonder how much of a ****ing elitist he was when everyone got all their money and commissions from the guy when he bought the horse?
Get real.

How in the hell does that not make them elitist *******s? Wtf was your point? Do you even know?

PLETCHER PLETCHER HE'S ORACLE'S MAN!! IF HOLTHUS CAN'T DO IT, PLETCHER CAN!!

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer....not that Holthus is poor


This is a regular theme in this industry....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer....not that Holthus is poor


This is a regular theme in this industry....

Joel I'm sure hes not poor!!!
I bet he made out QUITE well with this horse, and with the sale.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

How in the hell does that not make them elitist *******s? Wtf was your point? Do you even know?

PLETCHER PLETCHER HE'S ORACLE'S MAN!! IF HOLTHUS CAN'T DO IT, PLETCHER CAN!!

Ok Pillow, heres my point. I'm willing to bet that Holthus made as much off the sale(if he was given the standard commission) as he will off teh rest of his stable this year!!!
I doubt he has much of a grudge against the guy.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ok Pillow, heres my point. I'm willing to bet that Holthus made as much off the sale(if he was given the standard commission) as he will off teh rest of his stable this year!!!
I doubt he has much of a grudge against the guy.

Well after doing some research I may be wrong in calling the Haisfield's elitist *******s. It seems that they're not your typical second or third generation blue blood and are actually quite new to the game. So I'll just call them naive jackasses since they overpaid for LR.

And they're really naive if they think Pletcher is going to lead this horse to a classic win. If things come together perfectly LR could have a shot at the Donn at GP but that's a longshot and a complete guess on my part. For all I know Pletcher could send him west.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I wonder how much of a ****ing elitist he was when everyone got all their money and commissions from the guy when he bought the horse?
Get real.
And Seattle it really would help if you ever once went to a racetrack in the morning, even once in your life, and saw how training takes place. Leparoux or baze? What exactly does that mean? They aren't even in the elite class of jocks, and it wouldnt matter if they were.
The problem with knowitall kids who have never even seen horses train in the morning is that they think they are cars, and the jockey just steps on the gas or hits the brakes.
Heres a newsflash, they aren't. What they are is huge animals who aren't overall very bright. The only way to teach a horse anything is by repitition. They don't just pick things up that easily(most of them). WHy do you think that some are still bad gate actors even after a year of racing?
Please spare me the jockey hero worship bs, its completely erroneous to think that a jockey can just change in the afternoon what a horse learns in the mornings because he wants to. The fact that the horse weighs 1000 pounds and has a mind of his own sorta gets in the way of that.
Why not ask Honu how hard it is to get one of these horses whose speed crazy to learn how to relax? Idiots who worshiop jockeys think gee, why not just take a hold of him and ask him to run late!!! DUH!!!! Gee, Seattle, I suppose noone ever thought of that huh? Dope. If it were that easy, every horse would be a perfect ride.
The problem with a rank horse is that while you are grabbing them, they are struggling with all their might to try and run and STILL using all the energy they would be using if they were allowed to run, but even WORSE, if you are grabbing them while they are trying so hard to run off with you instead of letting them run, when you turn for home you have a tired horse who is 5 lengths behind instead of 5 lengths in front.
It takes a lot of work in the mornings to get one to efficiently change his style effectively. Some just chill out a bit and become easier to rate as they get older and bit more relaxed.

ive been to the racetrack in the morning for some panckaes and some Marlyand action, and to see cheap claimers run around the track for some jogs