Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

#1 05-11-2010, 11:17 PM

Yeah I don't know how Andy Beyer will sleep at night knowing that you don't think much of his work.

The Silky Johnson of horse racing message boards.

Smooth Operator · #2 05-12-2010, 08:01 AM

Have learned more about this game from reading Beyer's articles and books over the years than from anyone else … but have to admit … found it pretty funny when Z romped in the Classic after he completely dismissed her in the contest … and have found it even funnier watching RA get exposed in her first two starts this season after he lobbied so hard for her to win HotY.

Perhaps he'll have the last laugh this year … still a long way to go … but I've been THOROUGHLY enjoying things so far…

CSC · #3 05-12-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Have learned more about this game from reading Beyer's articles and books over the years than from anyone else … but have to admit … found it pretty funny when Z romped in the Classic after he completely dismissed her in the contest … and have found it even funnier watching RA get exposed in her first two starts this season after he lobbied so hard for her to win HotY.

Perhaps he'll have the last laugh this year … still a long way to go … but I've been THOROUGHLY enjoying things so far…

He's an excellent writer and he probably has done more for the game than any columnist has ever written about horseracing, however for me his opinion hasn't mean't as much of late with his inability to adjust to the introduction of synthetics. The dismissing of Zenyatta is the obvious one, and though I commend him in trying to correct the incorrect figs for sythetics last year, it is an admission to me that the arriving of synth figs were far from being concise.

the_fat_man · #4 05-12-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

He's an excellent writer and he probably has done more for the game than any columnist has ever written about horseracing, however for me his opinion hasn't mean't as much of late with his inability to adjust to the introduction of synthetics. The dismissing of Zenyatta is the obvious one, and though I commend him in trying to correct the incorrect figs for sythetics last year, it is an admission to me that the arriving of synth figs were far from being concise.

I also read quite a bit of his work when I first got into the game. I respect him for what he did and for continuing to write insightfully about the game. But I don't presently respect his opinion nor his position regarding change. His trip handicapping is average, at best; and he was FORCED, finally, to admit that his synthetic figures were, basically, USELESS, by having to ad hoc TWEAK THEM. Before doing so, however, he (and his crew) felt the need to trash POLY horses -- it wasn't his figures but the horses. All of a sudden, BEYERITES became the defenders of DIRT. This would be fine if it wasn't so self serving. In the meantime, with so many POLY horses crossing over and beating DIRT horses on their surface, and his poor opinion of Z, he's on the brink of getting exposed.

BEYER == DIRT DEFENDER

CSC · #5 05-12-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I also read quite a bit of his work when I first got into the game. I respect him for what he did and for continuing to write insightfully about the game. But I don't presently respect his opinion nor his position regarding change. His trip handicapping is average, at best; and he was FORCED, finally, to admit that his synthetic figures were, basically, USELESS, by having to ad hoc TWEAK THEM. Before doing so, however, he (and his crew) felt the need to trash POLY horses -- it wasn't his figures but the horses. All of a sudden, BEYERITES became the defenders of DIRT. This would be fine if it wasn't so self serving. In the meantime, with so many POLY horses crossing over and beating DIRT horses on their surface, and his poor opinion of Z, he's on the brink of getting exposed.

BEYER == DIRT DEFENDER

This is a very interesting post...I'll say this atleast not all at DRF do not recognize how special a talent Zenyatta is. Ie. Steve Crist

Danzig · #6 05-12-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Have learned more about this game from reading Beyer's articles and books over the years than from anyone else … but have to admit … found it pretty funny when Z romped in the Classic after he completely dismissed her in the contest … and have found it even funnier watching RA get exposed in her first two starts this season after he lobbied so hard for her to win HotY.

Perhaps he'll have the last laugh this year … still a long way to go … but I've been THOROUGHLY enjoying things so far…

so, you're mad because andy beyer wasn't prescient? he didn't view his crystal ball and see she'd not come back as strong as when she finished up last fall? gimme a break.

new season, new year. if the saints don't make the playoffs this year, are you going to lobby for them to lose the lombardi from last year?

slotdirt · #7 05-12-2010, 10:07 AM

I don't get this whole argument that because Rachel lost this year, she didn't deserve horse of the year last year. That's like saying Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or any other annual award winner doesn't deserve a 2009 award because their 2010 season wasn't as good as the 2009 version. Do the Eclipse awards measure a single racing season or are they for career achievement?

My apologies in advance for my part in furthering this awful, miserable conversation.

cmorioles · #8 05-12-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Have learned more about this game from reading Beyer's articles and books over the years than from anyone else … but have to admit … found it pretty funny when Z romped in the Classic after he completely dismissed her in the contest … and have found it even funnier watching RA get exposed in her first two starts this season after he lobbied so hard for her to win HotY.

Perhaps he'll have the last laugh this year … still a long way to go … but I've been THOROUGHLY enjoying things so far…

For the 9 millionth time, what she has done this year has no bearing on who won the award last year.

10 pnt move up · #9 05-12-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

For the 9 millionth time, what she has done this year has no bearing on who won the award last year.

I agree, the only thing that this year does is make it definitive who is the better race horse.

slotdirt · #10 05-12-2010, 10:21 AM

That argument is fine. The argument that Zenyatta's 2009 was superior to the season Rachel Alexandra is also fine. However, Zenyatta backers, i.e. Jay Hovdey, LLC - lose points when they claim foul on the 2009 Eclipse because of 2010 results.

CSC · #11 05-12-2010, 10:28 AM

The Eclispe Award for HOY was close, for the upteenth time I for one was okay with last year's decision. As long as the definition is who had the better overall year and not who was/is the better horse. I think this is what SmoothOperator was attempting to articulate.

slotdirt · #12 05-12-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

The Eclispe Award for HOY was close, for the upteenth time I for one was okay with last year's decision. As long as the definition is who had the better overall year and not who was/is the better horse. I think this is what SmoothOperator was attempting to articulate.

Even you can't seriously believe that is at all what Mr. Operator was trying to articulate.

blackthroatedwind · #13 05-12-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I agree, the only thing that this year does is make it definitive who is the better race horse.

I wouldn't be so hard on Zenyatta. She hasn't been that bad this year. It's not too late for her to prove the better of the two. Hopefully she will be given the chance.

the_fat_man · #14 05-12-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I wouldn't be so hard on Zenyatta. She hasn't been that bad this year. It's not too late for her to prove the better of the two. Hopefully she will be given the chance.

UMMMMMMMMMM

Since her CADDY already beat RA this year and RA was in the barn when it came time to meet, most would REASONABLY conclude that Z is PRESENTLY the better of the two. You seem to keep forgetting that.

Is DaHoss coaching you?

Danzig · #15 05-12-2010, 12:47 PM

zenyatta has two wins, rachel two seconds. the 'caddy' did poorly last out, from what i recall.

what those facts and stats have to do with which would beat the other i don't know. rachel ran/won twice as often last year, i guess she was twice as good as zenyatta because of that??

slotdirt · #16 05-12-2010, 11:06 AM

I've always kind of wondered why you were here. Cross "to discuss another poster" off that list.

CSC · #17 05-12-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I've always kind of wondered why you were here. Cross "to discuss another poster" off that list.

Obviously I enjoy this part the part of the discussion, especially when it comes to Rachel getting out of the Gr.2 ranks this year.

Smooth Operator · #18 05-12-2010, 12:12 PM

Danzig … how much does it cost to rent your "space" for a few months?

Would like you to insert the following information:

RA was overrated and overhyped by Andy Beyer and other members of the media in 2009.

If she was this extraordinary superstar filly … as they claimed … she wouldn't have bailed on a $5 million race in April 2010 … and she wouldn't be 0 for 2 so far this season.

Thanks…

brianwspencer · #19 05-12-2010, 12:21 PM

It must be really depressing to be a diehard Zenyatta fan to the point where you can't appreciate the mare on her own and every discussion had about the horse you love can only happen by disparaging another horse.

It has to be a really pitiful feeling to know that you can't even love a horse without having to use another one in reference to her all the time.

Stack that on top of all those sour grapes from January and it's got to be a really dark place.

Danzig · #20 05-12-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Danzig … how much does it cost to rent your "space" for a few months?

Would like you to insert the following information:

RA was overrated and overhyped by Andy Beyer and other members of the media in 2009.

If she was this extraordinary superstar filly … as they claimed … she wouldn't have bailed on a $5 million race in April 2010 … and she wouldn't be 0 for 2 so far this season.

Thanks…

i doubt you can afford the fee.

rachel was a phenom in '09. not sure why you think last years accolades have anything to do with this year. but then, that question has been posed to you 347 different ways, and you haven't answered it yet.

but the funniest part of all this, is how you continue to say 'ra' bailed...it's ra this, ra that. as tho she's making the calls!