Derby-Oaks Weekend Beyers

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What was the figure for Pickapocket's allowance win (8.5F in 1:43.2)?

99

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

99

If that's the case, and assuming the Derby figure is relative to the other two-turn races on the card, if the Derby figure were "off," it's probably only at best a length or two off.

[CSC]

From Beyer's Washington Post Column:

Super Saver's winning tine of 2:04.45 was the slowest since 1989. The Churchill Downs racing strip was slow, of course, but even when the track condition is taken into account, the race still produced a modest Beyer Speed Figure of 104, the second-lowest for the Derby in 20 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...16.html?sub=AR

[CSC]

NTAMM, further to your reply last night.

I agree with Beyer 100% on this quote:

This trouble doesn't mean that Ice Box is the most talented horse of this group or that he is likely to win the Preakness. The fast pace made this Derby a perfect set-up for stretch-runners like him.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

NTAMM, further to your reply last night.

I agree with Beyer 100% on this quote:

This trouble doesn't mean that Ice Box is the most talented horse of this group or that he is likely to win the Preakness. The fast pace made this Derby a perfect set-up for stretch-runners like him.

Is that what you said though? You said that he wasn't even closing. He was closing. This wasn't a suck-up second for a horse with a perfect trip who never had a straw in his path. I won't argue that the race didn't set up for him because it certainly did. I also won't make Ice Box out to be something more than he is, which is a pace dependent, one run closer who is going to be a factor when the race flow is in his favor. However, I don't think you can refute the notion that given what he encountered, on this particular day, he was best.

Might that be the case going forward? Not necessarily, because we really were left with more questions than answers. Lookin at Lucky collected more excuses, Sidney's Candy stopped like he got shot, Devil May Care had a perfect trip according to her jockey and came up empty and all of this was done on a very sloppy track that had begun to dry.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Is that what you said though? You said that he wasn't even closing. He was closing. This wasn't a suck-up second for a horse with a perfect trip who never had a straw in his path. I won't argue that the race didn't set up for him because it certainly did. I also won't make Ice Box out to be something more than he is, which is a pace dependent, one run closer who is going to be a factor when the race flow is in his favor. However, I don't think you can refute the notion that given what he encountered, on this particular day, he was best.

Might that be the case going forward? Not necessarily, because we really were left with more questions than answers. Lookin at Lucky collected more excuses, Sidney's Candy stopped like he got shot, Devil May Care had a perfect trip according to her jockey and came up empty and all of this was done on a very sloppy track that had begun to dry.

NT

It's a matter of interpretation, a horse that is seemingly closing into a final 26.80 sec final 1/4 mile in a race that was collasping is more likely to be downgraded the way I see it, obcourse if he had a clear trip he probably gets up to beat SS; however It would be hard pressed to find any performance that I would say was Summer Bird like as last year. I'll have to take another look but nothing stood out to me this year except for Conveyance who will be a good horse in the future given that they can find the right races for him.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

It's a matter of interpretation, a horse that is seemingly closing into a final 26.80 sec final 1/4 mile in a race that was collasping is more likely to be downgraded the way I see it, obcourse if he had a clear trip he probably gets up to beat SS; however It would be hard pressed to find any performance that I would say was Summer Bird like as last year. I'll have to take another look but nothing stood out to me this year except for Conveyance who will be a good horse in the future given that they can find the right races for him.

You have an uncanny way of trying to invoke your opinion on Summer Bird at every possible time.

NT