La Troienne discussion

[dalakhani]

Im not understanding how people are blaming the rider here. What did he do wrong? He sat right off a relatively slow pace and pounced around the turn. What was he supposed to do? She didnt get checked or have any traffic problems and he didnt get her into any kind of duel.

Calvin did his job. If she was good enough today, she wins. She wasn't good enough today.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Im not understanding how people are blaming the rider here. What did he do wrong? He sat right off a relatively slow pace and pounced around the turn. What was he supposed to do? She didnt get checked or have any traffic problems and he didnt get her into any kind of duel.

Calvin did his job. If she was good enough today, she wins. She wasn't good enough today.

well said.

[Indian Charlie]

Not well said at all.

Unless you mean he was grammatically correct.

If you don't understand how taking away the speed from a high quality and brilliantly fast horse is a poor tactic, than there really is no way for it to be explained to you.

Go and watch a few thousand more races, and watch what happens to horses like, say, Bertrando, when the jock doesn't let them roll.

And just because he wasn't fighting her doesn't mean he was not compromising her chances of winning.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Not well said at all.

Unless you mean he was grammatically correct.

If you don't understand how taking away the speed from a high quality and brilliantly fast horse is a poor tactic, than there really is no way for it to be explained to you.

Go and watch a few thousand more races, and watch what happens to horses like, say, Bertrando, when the jock doesn't let them roll.

And just because he wasn't fighting her doesn't mean he was not compromising her chances of winning.

perhaps you need to watch a few of her past races.

sometimes a horse is just a horse.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by richard burch

perhaps you need to watch a few of her past races.

sometimes a horse is just a horse.

Are you really telling me that I should watch her past races?

Because if you are, you are way off base here. You aren't even remotely close to having a clue.

Her race Friday, she went 24.3, 48.4 and 112.2. Take a close look at EVERY start of hers prior to this last one, below.



Not in any single race did she go as slow as 24.3, except possibly the Oaks (the first 1/4 not shown).

Notice her half mile splits? Her slowest prior to the La Troienne was 47.4, a FULL SECOND faster that yesterdays race, and that came when she was a two year old, for crying out loud.

Take a look at her 3/4 splits. Friday she went 112.2.

The only time she went slower was her previous race! Again, she did not roll early, and she got beat.

Have you noticed yet, that by far her three most impressive wins last year, the Mother Goose, Preakness and Haskell, she set or pressed wicked fractions that are virtually unheard of by a horse in winning performances?

I can't even begin to understand how something so obvious eludes so many people.

Does this make any more sense to you now?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Are you really telling me that I should watch her past races?

Because if you are, you are way off base here. You aren't even remotely close to having a clue.

Her race Friday, she went 24.3, 48.4 and 112.2. Take a close look at EVERY start of hers prior to this last one, below.



Not in any single race did she go as slow as 24.3, except possibly the Oaks (the first 1/4 not shown).

Notice her half mile splits? Her slowest prior to the La Troienne was 47.4, a FULL SECOND faster that yesterdays race, and that came when she was a two year old, for crying out loud.

Take a look at her 3/4 splits. Friday she went 112.2.

The only time she went slower was her previous race! Again, she did not roll early, and she got beat.
Have you noticed yet, that by far her three most impressive wins last year, the Mother Goose, Preakness and Haskell, she set or pressed wicked fractions that are virtually unheard of by a horse in winning performances?

I can't even begin to understand how something so obvious eludes so many people.

Does this make any more sense to you now?

Who would have beat her if Unrivaled Belle was scratched ?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by sammy

get a grip. i see at least six 47 second splits in her line and she won all but one of those races.

just another monday morning handicapper who thinks he knows everything.

Ya see, people like you are what makes me think the human race is mostly retarded.

Are you really equating 47.2s and 47.3's as a 2yo and early 3yo to 48.4 as a 4yo?

You don't think 47.2 very early as a 3yo isn't a ton faster than 48.4 now???

I mean, seriously. WTF?

You really aren't that dumb, are you?

[letswastemoney]

So it would be like how Hard Spun was affected in the 2007 Belmont because Gomez didn't let him roll, despite the fractions being very slow from what I remember.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Ya see, people like you are what makes me think the human race is mostly retarded.

Are you really equating 47.2s and 47.3's as a 2yo and early 3yo to 48.4 as a 4yo?

You don't think 47.2 very early as a 3yo isn't a ton faster than 48.4 now???

I mean, seriously. WTF?

You really aren't that dumb, are you?

take your medication.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Not well said at all.

Unless you mean he was grammatically correct.

If you don't understand how taking away the speed from a high quality and brilliantly fast horse is a poor tactic, than there really is no way for it to be explained to you.

Go and watch a few thousand more races, and watch what happens to horses like, say, Bertrando, when the jock doesn't let them roll.

And just because he wasn't fighting her doesn't mean he was not compromising her chances of winning.

So he was supposed to hustle her up? He let her do her thing.

This isn't some 50k claimer and prior to the last two races, Rachel was certainly held in higher regard than Bertrando (certainly no knock on that horse). This is Rachel Alexandra...reigning HOY...the next coming of Ruffian. She got eyeballed in the lane. Pure and simple. And you are blaming the jock for not rushing her through faster fractions on a track that was playing against speed all day?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

So he was supposed to hustle her up? He let her do her thing.

This isn't some 50k claimer and prior to the last two races, Rachel was certainly held in higher regard than Bertrando (certainly no knock on that horse). This is Rachel Alexandra...reigning HOY...the next coming of Ruffian. She got eyeballed in the lane. Pure and simple. And you are blaming the jock for not rushing her through faster fractions on a track that was playing against speed all day?

I don't know why English is such a hard language for people.

This is a filly that when setting very fast fractions, ran her opposition off of their feet. Any horse within a short distance of her on the turn usually ended up at the back of the pack, while at the same time, most closers really couldn't make up much ground on her.

What I'm trying to say is that that running style is what suits her best. She may or may not be at the same quality level she was last year, but until she's allowed to run the type of race that made her so great last year, we'll never really know why she's lost twice this year already.

And I never said to 'hustle' her. Or, as you say, just let her do her thing. Something that you are very wrong about. If you saw any of her races last year, it should be really obvious that her thing is to go fast early and keep going. Do you think 48.4 is a good example of that?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I don't know why English is such a hard language for people.

This is a filly that when setting very fast fractions, ran her opposition off of their feet. Any horse within a short distance of her on the turn usually ended up at the back of the pack, while at the same time, most closers really couldn't make up much ground on her.

What I'm trying to say is that that running style is what suits her best. She may or may not be at the same quality level she was last year, but until she's allowed to run the type of race that made her so great last year, we'll never really know why she's lost twice this year already.

And I never said to 'hustle' her. Just let her do her thing.

You may have a point. I'm anxious to see them use those tactics next out. Cheers.

[Left Bank]

I strongly feel we will see a different rider next time.I think Calvin did nothing wrong,I just think Dickhead(Jackson) will switch,since he thinks he knows everything.