Zenyatta likely to the Vanity

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by GBBob

It's more the fact that when Z passes on a race it's a smart move, but when RA passes she is a p*ssy....some hypocricy from the Z fans I think

I'm a FAN of both, so I don't want to be put in either camp... The "undefeated" streak is something that can't be taken lightly. Again, nothing against Rachel, but I think Jess thought she was unbeatable (much like he does/did with Curlin) and never envisioned that his horse off a 7 month layoff wouldn't be the "same". There were alot of peple who thought Z was "lame" or "amiss" this time last year; clearly z wasn't and neither RA is this year, so let's just hope we see them both on the track for the rest of 2010 and hopefullly in the B/C Classic (regardless of path).

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I'm a FAN of both, so I don't want to be put in either camp... The "undefeated" streak is something that can't be taken lightly. Again, nothing against Rachel, but I think Jess thought she was unbeatable (much like he does/did with Curlin) and never envisioned that his horse off a 7 month layoff wouldn't be the "same". There were alot of peple who thought Z was "lame" or "amiss" this time last year; clearly z wasn't and neither RA is this year, so let's just hope we see them both on the track for the rest of 2010 and hopefullly in the B/C Classic (regardless of path).

Hear hear!

(wine glass in hand)

(I woke up with it this morning.... ....)

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I'm a FAN of both, so I don't want to be put in either camp... The "undefeated" streak is something that can't be taken lightly. Again, nothing against Rachel, but I think Jess thought she was unbeatable (much like he does/did with Curlin) and never envisioned that his horse off a 7 month layoff wouldn't be the "same". There were alot of peple who thought Z was "lame" or "amiss" this time last year; clearly z wasn't and neither RA is this year, so let's just hope we see them both on the track for the rest of 2010 and hopefullly in the B/C Classic (regardless of path).

I'd be interested to know how many racing fans really care about her being undefeated. I'm not talking about the Zenstapo who cling to her record as some sort of proof that she's an all-time great, I'm talking about people who have no dog in the fight. I think seeing her actually take on the best competition race in and race out would earn her more respect and admiration (even if she suffered some losses) than hanging out in her backyard and beating the same listed stakes horses all year does.

[dalakhani]

If they put out a bet that this would be her last race, I would take it. Just an out in left field hunch.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'd be interested to know how many racing fans really care about her being undefeated. I'm not talking about the Zenstapo who cling to her record as some sort of proof that she's an all-time great, I'm talking about people who have no dog in the fight. I think seeing her actually take on the best competition race in and race out would earn her more respect and admiration (even if she suffered some losses) than hanging out in her backyard and beating the same listed stakes horses all year does.

Where is her best competition... One is running in the Met Mile and the other at Churchill on Oaks day. Do we really need to see her run by Macho Again or Mind That Bird? If you want, want I want, you want to see Quality Road, Rachel and Zenyatta in the starting gate for the Classic. Everything else is a "prep"...

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by smuthg

Where is her best competition... One is running in the Met Mile and the other at Churchill on Oaks day. Do we really need to see her run by Macho Again or Mind That Bird? If you want, want I want, you want to see Quality Road, Rachel and Zenyatta in the starting gate for the Classic. Everything else is a "prep"...

Who knows if they'll even last that long. Might as well run against each other now while the horses are injury-free.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'd be interested to know how many racing fans really care about her being undefeated. I'm not talking about the Zenstapo who cling to her record as some sort of proof that she's an all-time great, I'm talking about people who have no dog in the fight. I think seeing her actually take on the best competition race in and race out would earn her more respect and admiration (even if she suffered some losses) than hanging out in her backyard and beating the same listed stakes horses all year does.

No doubt about it. In another sense I think she risks more by running against
so called patsies in California because if she loses to them it is a larger blemish on her record.
I would love to see her stay undefeated and run against the best. No one has control over where she runs except the connections and wherever it is I'll be rooting.
People don't need to hold on to her record as any "proof" that she's an all time great. She already is.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

No doubt about it. In another sense I think she risks more by running against
so called patsies in California because if she loses to them it is a larger blemish on her record.
I would love to see her stay undefeated and run against the best. No one has control over where she runs except the connections and wherever it is I'll be rooting.
People don't need to hold on to her record as any "proof" that she's an all time great. She already is.

I disagree, and it's for that specific reason.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I disagree, and it's for that specific reason.

I can respect that and wouldn't attempt to convince you or anyone else that she is. I get the sense that it is not so much the horse but the Zenstapo as you call them. You would like for them to understand that she is only undefeated because of the relative quality of her opponents and not so much because of her raw talent. It's definitly a combination of the two and I for one don't believe that she would be undefeated today if she was ready to run her best race in this years Donn.
If and when the time comes that she is left with too much to do because her opponent(s) were simply faster than her it still won't take away from the legacy that she has left on the racetrack.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

I can respect that and wouldn't attempt to convince you or anyone else that she is. I get the sense that it is not so much the horse but the Zenstapo as you call them. You would like for them to understand that she is only undefeated because of the relative quality of her opponents and not so much because of her raw talent. It's definitly a combination of the two and I for one don't believe that she would be undefeated today if she was ready to run her best race in this years Donn.
If and when the time comes that she is left with too much to do because her opponent(s) were simply faster than her it still won't take away from the legacy that she has left on the racetrack.

Not really, I actually agree with you that it's a combination of both. But they seem to think it's only because of the latter. I think she's got a lot of talent, but that's the unfortunate part of her campaigns to me, is that we may never know how much she truly has/had. And a big part of her schedule seems to be geared toward keeping her undefeated, which I'm not sure impartial fans care about, as opposed to proving her against the best/most diverse competition.

I really, really, don't wish to make this into another RA vs. Zen thread, because both have their shortcomings and all of the arguments have been exhausted. I'm simply saying why it's so disappointing to see Zen's connections run her at home in public workouts nine times out of ten. It's not because I think she sucks, but quite the opposite. I think she's good, and I want to see just how good.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Not really, I actually agree with you that it's a combination of both. But they seem to think it's only because of the latter. I think she's got a lot of talent, but that's the unfortunate part of her campaigns to me, is that we may never know how much she truly has/had. And a big part of her schedule seems to be geared toward keeping her undefeated, which I'm not sure impartial fans care about, as opposed to proving her against the best/most diverse competition.

I really, really, don't wish to make this into another RA vs. Zen thread,
AMEN
because both have their shortcomings and all of the arguments have been exhausted. I'm simply saying why it's so disappointing to see Zen's connections run her at home in public workouts nine times out of ten. It's not because I think she sucks, but quite the opposite. I think she's good, and I want to see just how good.

Agreed. Lots of time left in the year. Here's to her health.