Lawyer Ron Goes to Pletcher..

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Steve, that's really weak. Switching doesn't kill me but to do it that way is classless. I hope they realize that he deserves an apology for that garbage.

I couldn't agree more.............

[Scav]

People don't care anymore, about anything. Too many people have forgotten about old fashion values, being loyal and trustworthy.

I BLAME TV and Movies for hardening the youth......ok, I just wanted to see what that excuse actually feels like when ridiculous people say it.

Fact is that Karma is a bitch, and sometimes it is really bitchy and sometimes it just hurts a little but KARMA always comes and gets ya when you mess with it

[Scav]

I should call Pletcher and ask him if he would accept me, he takes everything else in....

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Scav

I should call Pletcher and ask him if he would accept me, he takes everything else in....

you're gonna need a sponser he doesn't take them in for free LOL

[Gander]

He would Scavs. You'd go from running 8 minute miles to 7 minute miles in 2 weeks.

Fleet Scavs, Scavs Indian.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Gander

He would Scavs. You'd go from running 8 minute miles to 7 minute miles in 2 weeks.

Fleet Scavs, Scavs Indian.

ha, ha!

Do you guys honestly think that Pletcher initiated this?
That he was calling the owners up and begging to get this horse?
I doubt it highly.
I would imagine that after being rank once again, and losing narrowly in a big money race, that the owners wanted to make a change and try something new.
I guess I understand that people dislike the rich getting richer. But where were you guys when Mandella got Rock Hard Ten? Why wasn't there crying or bellyaching then?
How about when Kirian got Henny Hughes? Where was this outpouring of concern over loyalty or sympathy?
I guess I don't get it.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Do you guys honestly think that Pletcher initiated this?
That he was calling the owners up and begging to get this horse?

where did anyone say this?

Originally Posted by paisjpq

where did anyone say this?

Well I mean why the venom at Todd then? What exactly has he done wrong here?
A guy called him up and said we are making a trainer switch on the horse, will you take him? Only a fool wouldn't. If he had said no, they woulda called another guy. Someone was gonna get him, may as well have been him.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Do you guys honestly think that Pletcher initiated this?
That he was calling the owners up and begging to get this horse?
I doubt it highly.
I would imagine that after being rank once again, and losing narrowly in a big money race, that the owners wanted to make a change and try something new.
I guess I understand that people dislike the rich getting richer. But where were you guys when Mandella got Rock Hard Ten? Why wasn't there crying or bellyaching then?
How about when Kirian got Henny Hughes? Where was this outpouring of concern over loyalty or sympathy?
I guess I don't get it.

That one sucks too, because didn't Gary get the call while at lunch with Jason Orman?

You've voiced your opinion about how people can trounce on you in the business too. (stallion seasons) Sure it was the owner's right and sure it is business, but it still sucks.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

That one sucks too, because didn't Gary get the call while at lunch with Jason Orman?

You've voiced your opinion about how people can trounce on you in the business too. (stallion seasons) Sure it was the owner's right and sure it is business, but it still sucks.

I think his inability to get the horse to quit being rank certainly didn't help matters any.
Like I said, I think Holthus happens to be a great trainer, every year he develops something very nicely, and he doesnt get all bluebloods.
But you really can't blame a guy who spent a lotta dough on a horse for trying a change.
I think there is a perspective problem here, and allow me to point out that Holthus made the former owner a fortune and won a lotta races, but for the new guy, hes made 3 starts, and had one win, in the illustrious St Louis Derby.
What he did with the horse before Stonewall bought him really doesn't matter to them.
I think if he wins his last race, they never make the switch, never. But he lost with the rankness again, and if I had kicked up that kind of dough for a horse, I can see where I might be a tad upset when he blows a big purse by being rank again. Its not irrational to make a move they feel is in their best interests. And may I remind you of something else, everybody has made a lotta cash on this horse, except the current owner!!!! The former owner and his estate, the trainer, the jockey, the people who own the mare or the half siblings all made out great!!! But the guy who owns him now, well he aint doing so hot compared to them, that guys stuck a lotta cabbage. Lots easier to be loyal and all that when you aren't stuck your ass on an investment.

I think this is a bad move.

[slotdirt]

I'll say it again, it's definitely a terrible way to do business, but does anybody really think it doesn't make sense?

What would everybody say if Funny Cide were (finally) taken out of Tagg's hands?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'll say it again, it's definitely a terrible way to do business, but does anybody really think it doesn't make sense?

What would everybody say if Funny Cide were (finally) taken out of Tagg's hands?

Tagg isn't the problem, the owners are

[Kasept]

If there was an unhappiness with things you think they could have made a rider switch first, had McKee specifically been the issue..

I'll speculate that there's a Breeders' Cup Classic appearance at the center of this... Stonewall likely wants in and Holthus may have been advising against?? Makes as much sense as anything...

Frankly, and I'm not looking to insult Holthus or McKee with this, I don't think they did a good job at all trying to find ways to get Lawyer Ron to relax. You cannot get a free-running horse to "rate" by tugging on him. All that does is make him run harder. That exhausts rider and horse.. You throw the reins at him and let him rate on his own. The horse will do it HIMSELF... You then pick up the reins when you want him to get back into the bit.



(As a sidebar to the above, I had a great talk yesterday with Precisionist's trainer Ross Fenstermaker who had Chris McCarron do EXACTLY this in the Silver Screen and Swaps... 5,000 win rider Tony Black also discussed it yesterday with us on ATRAB and said the same thing... Fenstermaker will be on the show tonight to talk about his late Hall of Famer, and I'll now try to get McCarron as well...)

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Kasept

If there was an unhappiness with things you think they could have made a rider switch first, had McKee specifically been the issue..

I'll speculate that there's a Breeders' Cup Classic appearance at the center of this... Stonewall likely wants in and Holthus may have been advising against?? Makes as much sense as anything...

Frankly, and I'm not looking to insult Holthus or McKee with this, I don't think they did a good job at all trying to find ways to get Lawyer Ron to relax. You cannot get a free-running horse to "rate" by tugging on him. All that does is make him run harder. That exhausts rider and horse.. You throw the reins at him and let him rate on his own. The horse will do it HIMSELF... You then pick up the reins when you want him to get back into the bit.



(As a sidebar to the above, I had a great talk yesterday with Precisionist's trainer Ross Fenstermaker who had Chris McCarron do EXACTLY this in the Silver Screen and Swaps... 5,000 win rider Tony Black also discussed it yesterday with us on ATRAB and said the same thing... Fenstermaker will be on the show tonight to talk about his late Hall of Famer, and I'll now try to get McCarron as well...)

My first thought was that Pletcher finally has his Classic horse...

I would have done the rider switch first.

[paisjpq]

what a classless way to do business...this switch moves LR up in my eyes, though I still think he has little chance if he goes in the classic...I feel bad in a way though for Holthus, even if it is just business he's gotten the horse this far...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

what a classless way to do business...this switch moves LR up in my eyes, though I still think he has little chance if he goes in the classic...I feel bad in a way though for Holthus, even if it is just business he's gotten the horse this far...

Not sure it moves him up anymore then he is. Hard to teach an older horse how to do something new you know. It is like teaching a 20 year old how to tie his shoes a different way. If anyone can do it Pletcher can but I think, from a gambling perspective, this horse is going to get unloaded on now, and some serious value against him, given the right competition

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Scav

Not sure it moves him up anymore then he is. Hard to teach an older horse how to do something new you know. It is like teaching a 20 year old how to tie his shoes a different way. If anyone can do it Pletcher can but I think, from a gambling perspective, this horse is going to get unloaded on now, and some serious value against him, given the right competition

I agree with you ...undoing this horse's desire to be rank and on the front end will be a difficult task even for a guy like Pletcher...but I think a rider change would have been the first and best step to take before a trainer change...I wouldn't bet on LR before so I don't intend to start now.

[Pointg5]

LR doesn't always run off, he's only done that twice now. It's not like he's speed speed speed...I don't think it will change his odds much with Pletch, most people do not respect the horse much to begin with...