Thoughts On NBA at midseason

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The Knicks could get below that number easily. Package one of their expiring contracts (tub of **** or jefferies) with a draft pick (certainly going to be high) and voila! On top of that, you will have room to spare.

Lots of benefits to playing in NY and plus the following year they will have even more room.

The pieces are complimentary and there is room to add more the following year. It could work easier for NY than chicago.

Funny Walsh is saying it will be near impossible to do.
The Knicks dont have their pick this year (Utah owns the non protected rights) and if they get LeBron their future picks wont be very appealing.

The benefits of playing in NY are seriously overblown. I say that as a Knick fan who hasnt seen any good players choose to sign with the Knicks in 20 years.

Anyone who think the Knicks players signed for 2010-2011 are better than Chicago's should immediately check themselves into the hospital and have them do extensive testing for dementia

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Im not. I just have an idea on how teams are made. Some don't. Its not about throwing a bunch of guys together and seeing if they can play together. Guys have to get their shots. There has to be players to do different roles. You can't say "derrick Rose is the point guard and i dont see a problem with that". That is an ignorant statement. You are asking a guy that has never distributed the ball in his life, never played second fiddle in his life and never had to spot up in his life to suddenly have to do these things and expect it to work simply because he is talented. Basketball doesnt work that way.

Would they be good? Sure they would be good. Wade and Bosh would be good with anyone around them. At the same time, in order to seriously contend, you would need a guy to get them their shots and hit an open three.

Anyway, it is silly to argue. I think Wade and Bosh end up together and I would agree that Chicago has a shot (isnt it wade's hometown?) but no more so than New York or Miami and I think Miami would be the favorite. What is your opinion?

She acts like Rose is Iverson. He isnt. That he has never played second fiddle doesnt mean he has issues, it just means he has been better than his teammates. The thought that he couldnt fit with Wade in the backsourt is beyond dumb. This isnt baseball where you cant ask Jim Thome to bunt and steal bases because he physically cant do it. Players adapt to different roles all the time. Look at Channing Frye. he went from being pretty much a stiff low post, high post player to a good perimeter shooter because he plays on a different team that has a different use for him. The idea that Rose cant play the point on a good team with other weapons is misguided. He idea that he wouldnt play second fiddle to one of the games very best players who would compliment his game and make him better is misguided.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I think Chicago has more overall talent than Miami. I'm not really paying attention to Wade or Bosh though!! AT least you get to see the glories of Drew Gooden up close and personal.

Chicago has a lot of talented players. The funny thing is they are guys who fit a certain role and they lack exactly what Wade and Bosh would bring. Personally I dont think it will happen, too many things have to occur and i would love to see the Knicks sign a real player and be semi relevant again. But sadly I dont think they will get Wade or LeBron.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Fine, Who is the Lakers big 3 point shooter? Their starters avg hitting just over 3 a game. Kobe? hits just over 1 a game. Artest? same with him. That is the key to thier offense? Yeah ok.

The Lakers are top 10 in the league in three pointers made and attempted. Every PG they use (fisher, farmar, vucacic) shoots over 35%. Artest is shooting 38%. Kobe 32%. They, as a team, have taken 1028 3 pt shots and made 358.

Kobe is 70-214. Artest is 75-190. Fisher (plays 27 mins) 48-137. Compare that to:

Wade is 54-182. Deng is 23-56. Rose is 5-22. I would imagine your math is as good as your poli/sci so I will tell you that Wade/Rose shoot below 30% from the 3 pt line.

In the NBA, you can't have two guys in your backcourt that can't shoot 30% from 3 pt range and win championships. But then again, Im sure you knew that.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

. Look at Channing Frye. he went from being pretty much a stiff low post, high post player to a good perimeter shooter because he plays on a different team that has a different use for him. The idea that Rose cant play the point on a good team with other weapons is misguided. He idea that he wouldnt play second fiddle to one of the games very best players who would compliment his game and make him better is misguided.

In what Bizzarro world did Channing Frye play low post? LOL I must not watch a lot of basketball and I must have imagined those days he was popping out to 19 ft every chance he got. I guess he has back to the basket moves that he never showed and only U of A alums with the special decoder ring had a chance to see in private midnight intramural games.

Its not whether rose can play pg on a good team its whether he could play it with those players you named.

[dalakhani]

And after re-reading all of this jibber-jabber I am more convinced than ever Bosh and Wade end up in Miami.

I have a bet chuckster. I bet wade/bosh miami. You say wade/bosh chicago. If neither happens push. If it goes down, $1000 against pair of trainers/owners seats for derby 2011.

Deal?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The Lakers are top 10 in the league in three pointers made and attempted. Every PG they use (fisher, farmar, vucacic) shoots over 35%. Artest is shooting 38%. Kobe 32%. They, as a team, have taken 1028 3 pt shots and made 358.

Kobe is 70-214. Artest is 75-190. Fisher (plays 27 mins) 48-137. Compare that to:

Wade is 54-182. Deng is 23-56. Rose is 5-22. I would imagine your math is as good as your poli/sci so I will tell you that Wade/Rose shoot below 30% from the 3 pt line.

In the NBA, you can't have two guys in your backcourt that can't shoot 30% from 3 pt range and win championships. But then again, Im sure you knew that.

They are 15th in the league in 3 point %. They are 9th in 3 pt FG's behind the Knicks, Pacers, Bucks, Hornets, Rockets. You naturally include the entire lakers roster and dont talk about Salmons who has made more 3 pointers this season than Artest or point out that Deng is shooting 41% and would surely find himself open for more looks when surrounded by offensive players like Wade, Rose and a low post threat of Bosh. You also act as though there wont be a ton of cheap, one dimensional shooters available for them to grab.

You know why the lakers shoot so many 3's? Because they have a terrific lineup that creates matchup problems leaving those other guys wide open. Ignoring that the lineup presented in the theoritical conversation wouldnt create a lot of wide open shots for the lesser lights simply doesnt fit into your argument.

[packerbacker7964]

Amare gets onto the Cavs roster and it's over for the rest of the East. Da Bulls could've pulled of this trade before the cavs even had a chnace and once again they choked. Kevin G. is changing his home phone number right as we speak because he doesn't want the C's calling him to see why he istn't coming to work. ha ha

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

In what Bizzarro world did Channing Frye play low post? LOL I must not watch a lot of basketball and I must have imagined those days he was popping out to 19 ft every chance he got. I guess he has back to the basket moves that he never showed and only U of A alums with the special decoder ring had a chance to see in private midnight intramural games.

Its not whether rose can play pg on a good team its whether he could play it with those players you named.

When the Knicks drafted him they tried to play him in the low post. The next year they got fat boy and tried Frye at the high post.

I dont really have to delve into the 3 pt stats for his career to show that he now plays on the perimeter now do i?

Anybody who thinks Wade, Bosh, Deng, Noah and Rose isnt a good team is just being obstinate

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And after re-reading all of this jibber-jabber I am more convinced than ever Bosh and Wade end up in Miami.

I have a bet chuckster. I bet wade/bosh miami. You say wade/bosh chicago. If neither happens push. If it goes down, $1000 against pair of trainers/owners seats for derby 2011.

Deal?

Since my bet would be contingent on Chicago trading Hinrich/Thomas for the space I will pass on your generous offer.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

NONE OF THE STARTERS SHOOTS 3's or PASSES! That doesnt work. Rose is a shoot first PG that now isnt going to have the pumpkin most of the time and has to find shots for other players. Defenses can collapse the lane because there is no one to keep them honest with range. Teams just arent built like this. There is no question that all of those guys are talented but that team isnt contending for a title. Lebron is going to get someone. That team that you have assembled isnt going to beat lebron+ (joe johnson?) and whoever else they have. It isnt beating the lakers.

Moving the 3 pt line changed the game and teams that can't consistently knock them down don't win. Period. Teams that don't pass, don't win. Period. I think you are just being stubborn because obviously you know this stuff.

Its a moot point regardless.

Have you watched Rose play? You are nuts saying he is shoot first PG. He has been forced into that role because we have no one that can make a shot. Matter of fact, he was TOLD to shoot because of how bad they were playing. They are now playing much better and things have opened up for everyone.

If they got just one of the two you guys are talking about, they are a top 3 team next year in the eastern conference, but if they got both, they would chew up teams, just based on their toughness.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

Amare gets onto the Cavs roster and it's over for the rest of the East. Da Bulls could've pulled of this trade before the cavs even had a chnace and once again they choked. Kevin G. is changing his home phone number right as we speak because he doesn't want the C's calling him to see why he istn't coming to work. ha ha

If Phoenix makes the proposed AS for Z's contract, Hickson and a late number 1 I would be surprised. I know they want to get rid of him but you are essentially getting .50 on the dollar.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Have you watched Rose play? You are nuts saying he is shoot first PG. He has been forced into that role because we have no one that can make a shot. Matter of fact, he was TOLD to shoot because of how bad they were playing. They are now playing much better and things have opened up for everyone.

If they got just one of the two you guys are talking about, they are a top 3 team next year in the eastern conference, but if they got both, they would chew up teams, just based on their toughness.

I knew if i talked about the Bulls long enough I could lure Mr. Chicago into the conversation.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I knew if i talked about the Bulls long enough I could lure Mr. Chicago into the conversation.

Your nuts thinking they are getting both those guys. While the Bulls management has a flair for the dramatic (think Baby Bulls Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler), they will never pull that off.

If Thomas would just buy into the philosophy like Joakim has done, he would be fine. I will sometimes just watch the Bulls to see what comedy stuff Thomas will do while on the court. He needs to be re-broke.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Your nuts thinking they are getting both those guys. While the Bulls management has a flair for the dramatic (think Baby Bulls Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler), they will never pull that off.

If Thomas would just buy into the philosophy like Joakim has done, he would be fine. I will sometimes just watch the Bulls to see what comedy stuff Thomas will do while on the court. He needs to be re-broke.

I never said it was a likely scenario. But saying that if they somehow made it work to bring those guys in the team wouldnt be any good is nuts.

Thomas and Noah are redundant. Thomas will never be a really good player because he thinks he already is.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Scav

Have you watched Rose play? You are nuts saying he is shoot first PG. He has been forced into that role because we have no one that can make a shot. Matter of fact, he was TOLD to shoot because of how bad they were playing. They are now playing much better and things have opened up for everyone.

If they got just one of the two you guys are talking about, they are a top 3 team next year in the eastern conference, but if they got both, they would chew up teams, just based on their toughness.

Guess which point guard leads the league in field goal attempts? Wait for it...


Derrick Rose. 894 attempts and he is the only PG in the top ten in fg attempts. By the way, he has more attempts than CHRIS BOSh. LOL

He is 14th in assists. If that isnt a shoot first pg, i dont know what is. As a matter of fact, that is the definition.

[dalakhani]

Even more interesting stat.

Wade, Rose and Bosh are all in the TOP TEN IN LEAGUE IN FG ATTEMPTS. DENG is 18th. They would have 4 guys in the top 20 in FG attempts.

None of them shoot 3's and none of them pass. No...there wouldnt be chemsitry issues.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Guess which point guard leads the league in field goal attempts? Wait for it...


Derrick Rose. 894 attempts and he is the only PG in the top ten in fg attempts. By the way, he has more attempts than CHRIS BOSh. LOL

He is 14th in assists. If that isnt a shoot first pg, i dont know what is. As a matter of fact, that is the definition.

Yeah sure and the situation that he has now is really similar to the one proposed. As Scavs said they dont have many other offensive options at the present time. Perhaps if you knew about the injury issues that the bulls have been dealing with not to mention the precarious situation that the head coach is in you wuld understand why he NEEDS to be the focal point of the offense.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Even more interesting stat.

Wade, Rose and Bosh are all in the TOP TEN IN LEAGUE IN FG ATTEMPTS. DENG is 18th. They would have 4 guys in the top 20 in FG attempts.

None of them shoot 3's and none of them pass. No...there wouldnt be chemsitry issues.

Are you really this stubborn? Since three of them are the main focus of the offense of their CURRENT teams.

In an average NBA game a team has between 95 and 100 possessions. Using THIS years stats those 4 players average 68 shots per game. That leaves 25-30 shots for others when TO's are considered.

So you dont think that Rose and Deng would each sacrifice a few shots a game to play with Wade and Bosh?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah sure and the situation that he has now is really similar to the one proposed. As Scavs said they dont have many other offensive options at the present time. Perhaps if you knew about the injury issues that the bulls have been dealing with not to mention the precarious situation that the head coach is in you wuld understand why he NEEDS to be the focal point of the offense.

LOL. I love the cop out. Like you and Scav have special access to insider bulls info. Every team has injury issues and any coach in the NBA not on a winning team on ly has so long. Vinny will make it to the end of the season barring something crazy.

I love Rose as a player. I think he is an excellent player. The part that Rose isn't a shoot first point guard is especially funny considering thats what he was at Memphis and thats what he has been so far in two seasons in chicago. My assessment is based on facts...indisputable facts. Yours is based on speculative jibberish about what you HOPE he might CHANGE into.

Hope and change...maybe we are on to something!