Thoughts On NBA at midseason

Cannon Shell · #1 02-13-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

How would Chicago make it work if New York can't? Even if you get rid of Hienrich's contract, you are still roughly at the same place New York is. And that is "if".

I think you are misinterpreting my point on chemistry issues in chicago with a potential bosh/wade addition. Rose is not exactly a ball distributing pg and he doesnt shoot 3's. He averages about 18 shots a game. Deng shoots about 15 shots a game. Wade is going to want his 20 and has never been accused of being a good 3 pt shooter and Bosh is going to want his 15...and then you have whoever is else left. Lets say Noah.

So you have a lineup without anyone to distribute the ball. You have no one that consistently knock down a three point shot. And you have 4 guys that are all use to getting 15-20 shots a game. Those are four great pieces indeed but they don't really fit. Hence, chemistry issues.

Miami makes more and more sense the more i think about it.

Wade wouldnt want to play with Derrick Rose? Yeah sure he wouldn't...

So Wade, Rose, Deng, Bosh and Noah wouldnt be a tough line up with Gibson and Slamons and the mid level exception player off the bench? You like Wade, Chalmers, Beasley, Bosh and player to be named later better?

dalakhani · #2 02-13-2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Wade wouldnt want to play with Derrick Rose? Yeah sure he wouldn't...

So Wade, Rose, Deng, Bosh and Noah wouldnt be a tough line up with Gibson and Slamons and the mid level exception player off the bench? You like Wade, Chalmers, Beasley, Bosh and player to be named later better?

Instead of being argumentative, try to understand the points presented and address them. Its not like there wouldnt be plenty of talent. My point is that they wouldnt go well together (chemistry!). You have four guys, none of them shoots 3's or distributes the ball and all of them are use to getting 15-20 shots. How does that work unless you have guys that will significantly change their respective game.

In miami, you don't have much money promised out and you can find players that would compliment wade and bosh. Beasley has been playing well lately but you get a nice return in a trade for him if you dont feel like he works. Either way, you have a blank slate with two studs and a bunch of money to fill in the blanks.

Cannon Shell · #3 02-13-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Instead of being argumentative, try to understand the points presented and address them. Its not like there wouldnt be plenty of talent. My point is that they wouldnt go well together (chemistry!). You have four guys, none of them shoots 3's or distributes the ball and all of them are use to getting 15-20 shots. How does that work unless you have guys that will significantly change their respective game.

In miami, you don't have much money promised out and you can find players that would compliment wade and bosh. Beasley has been playing well lately but you get a nice return in a trade for him if you dont feel like he works. Either way, you have a blank slate with two studs and a bunch of money to fill in the blanks.

Argumentative? it is hard to understand your logic. Like Derrick Rose wouldn't alter his game if he had Dwayne Wade in the backcourt with him? That Wade wouldnt want to play with a top 5 (and getting better) PG? That there would be a chemistry problem with the players ? Salmons can certainly shoot the three as evidenced by his 41% last year and Deng doesnt take a lot of them but is also over 40% this year, they would have two of the NBA's best rebounders (Noah and Bosh) as well.

A blank slate doesnt means that you can get the right pieces around them. Currently Miami has a slightly below average PG and an enigma signed through next year. The idea that they can fill out the roster with players that would be of the quality of Chicagos with the limited money they would have is a longshot. And that is if you believe you can be a championship calibur team with Mario Chalmers at the point and Micheal Beasley playing 35 minutes at whatever position that it is that he plays.

dalakhani · #4 02-13-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Argumentative? it is hard to understand your logic. Like Derrick Rose wouldn't alter his game if he had Dwayne Wade in the backcourt with him? That Wade wouldnt want to play with a top 5 (and getting better) PG? That there would be a chemistry problem with the players ? Salmons can certainly shoot the three as evidenced by his 41% last year and Deng doesnt take a lot of them but is also over 40% this year, they would have two of the NBA's best rebounders (Noah and Bosh) as well.

A blank slate doesnt means that you can get the right pieces around them. Currently Miami has a slightly below average PG and an enigma signed through next year. The idea that they can fill out the roster with players that would be of the quality of Chicagos with the limited money they would have is a longshot. And that is if you believe you can be a championship calibur team with Mario Chalmers at the point and Micheal Beasley playing 35 minutes at whatever position that it is that he plays.

First of all, I still have to understand how should Chicago could get it done and New York can't capwise unless some serious trades are made. I posted the links earlier.

If you still don't understand how there would be chemistry issues, anyway, i dont know what to tell you. You have 5 guys, none of them shoot threes or passes and 4 of them are use to 15-20 shots a game. You bring up salmons but you play 5 guys at a time in the NBA. So how can that work? It doesnt...except in rotisserie leagues but it doesnt even work there because you would get killed in a couple of categories.

Now, if your claim is that maybe they get a couple of the players you named to create cap space (perhaps deng or even rose) and find lesser paid parts that actually fit on the court, i can buy that. But a starting lineup of deng, rose, wade, bosh and noah doesnt work on many levels. Yes, four very talented players but talented players don't always play well together.

Cannon Shell · #5 02-13-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

First of all, I still have to understand how should Chicago could get it done and New York can't capwise unless some serious trades are made. I posted the links earlier.

If you still don't understand how there would be chemistry issues, anyway, i dont know what to tell you. You have 5 guys, none of them shoot threes or passes and 4 of them are use to 15-20 shots a game. You bring up salmons but you play 5 guys at a time in the NBA. So how can that work? It doesnt...except in rotisserie leagues but it doesnt even work there because you would get killed in a couple of categories.

Now, if your claim is that maybe they get a couple of the players you named to create cap space (perhaps deng or even rose) and find lesser paid parts that actually fit on the court, i can buy that. But a starting lineup of deng, rose, wade, bosh and noah doesnt work on many levels. Yes, four very talented players but talented players don't always play well together.

PG - Rose (Hard to believe you can find a major fault here)
SG - Wade (could pace himself with other weapons unlike now where he is basically asked to carry the entire load)
SF - Deng (He probably isnt worth his contract but is a good mid range scorer who would benefit greatly from playing with Wade and Bosh. Pretty good defender and rebounder with length)
PF - Noah (Relentless rebounder and good low post defender who stepped up his game this year before getting hurt. Does not need offensive touches)
C- Bosh (24-10 guy, very good defender in prime of his career)
6th mn - Salomns - (Offensive minded player who could spell Wade and Deng. Good 3 pt shooter)
7th man - Taj Gibson - (Good rookie season so far, brings energy and rebounding, has tons of upside)

It looks like the puzzle pieces fit pretty well. Each player is suited to their role. I have no idea how you dont see these players fitting together. It is a longshot to happen as they would still have to get rid of Thomas and Hinrich without taking on money and may even need Wade to take a little less than max money to fill up the cupboard. I will give you that all the dominos falling to make this happen is far from a certainty. But that team would be a serious contender.

dalakhani · #6 02-13-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

PG - Rose (Hard to believe you can find a major fault here)
SG - Wade (could pace himself with other weapons unlike now where he is basically asked to carry the entire load)
SF - Deng (He probably isnt worth his contract but is a good mid range scorer who would benefit greatly from playing with Wade and Bosh. Pretty good defender and rebounder with length)
PF - Noah (Relentless rebounder and good low post defender who stepped up his game this year before getting hurt. Does not need offensive touches)
C- Bosh (24-10 guy, very good defender in prime of his career)
6th mn - Salomns - (Offensive minded player who could spell Wade and Deng. Good 3 pt shooter)
7th man - Taj Gibson - (Good rookie season so far, brings energy and rebounding, has tons of upside)

It looks like the puzzle pieces fit pretty well. Each player is suited to their role. I have no idea how you dont see these players fitting together. It is a longshot to happen as they would still have to get rid of Thomas and Hinrich without taking on money and may even need Wade to take a little less than max money to fill up the cupboard. I will give you that all the dominos falling to make this happen is far from a certainty. But that team would be a serious contender.

NONE OF THE STARTERS SHOOTS 3's or PASSES! That doesnt work. Rose is a shoot first PG that now isnt going to have the pumpkin most of the time and has to find shots for other players. Defenses can collapse the lane because there is no one to keep them honest with range. Teams just arent built like this. There is no question that all of those guys are talented but that team isnt contending for a title. Lebron is going to get someone. That team that you have assembled isnt going to beat lebron+ (joe johnson?) and whoever else they have. It isnt beating the lakers.

Moving the 3 pt line changed the game and teams that can't consistently knock them down don't win. Period. Teams that don't pass, don't win. Period. I think you are just being stubborn because obviously you know this stuff.

Its a moot point regardless.

Cannon Shell · #7 02-14-2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

NONE OF THE STARTERS SHOOTS 3's or PASSES! That doesnt work. Rose is a shoot first PG that now isnt going to have the pumpkin most of the time and has to find shots for other players. Defenses can collapse the lane because there is no one to keep them honest with range. Teams just arent built like this. There is no question that all of those guys are talented but that team isnt contending for a title. Lebron is going to get someone. That team that you have assembled isnt going to beat lebron+ (joe johnson?) and whoever else they have. It isnt beating the lakers.

Moving the 3 pt line changed the game and teams that can't consistently knock them down don't win. Period. Teams that don't pass, don't win. Period. I think you are just being stubborn because obviously you know this stuff.

Its a moot point regardless.

Fine, Who is the Lakers big 3 point shooter? Their starters avg hitting just over 3 a game. Kobe? hits just over 1 a game. Artest? same with him. That is the key to thier offense? Yeah ok.

None of the starters pass? That is ridiclous. Just stupid. Like it is a collecion of 5 gunners. Noah rarely shoots, Bosh needs to be fed, he doesnt create his own shot, Deng and Rose would certainly defer to Wade. Your premise that this isnt how teams are built is close to insane. The NBA is a matchup league and that lineup would provide a lot of match up problems. You think adding a three point shooter wouldnt be hard? You dont think open shots would be created with that team on the floor? You must have be brainwashed by watching too many Wizards games...

I havent seen a team collapse a defense in the NBA ever. Do you even watch the games?

Scav · #8 02-14-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

NONE OF THE STARTERS SHOOTS 3's or PASSES! That doesnt work. Rose is a shoot first PG that now isnt going to have the pumpkin most of the time and has to find shots for other players. Defenses can collapse the lane because there is no one to keep them honest with range. Teams just arent built like this. There is no question that all of those guys are talented but that team isnt contending for a title. Lebron is going to get someone. That team that you have assembled isnt going to beat lebron+ (joe johnson?) and whoever else they have. It isnt beating the lakers.

Moving the 3 pt line changed the game and teams that can't consistently knock them down don't win. Period. Teams that don't pass, don't win. Period. I think you are just being stubborn because obviously you know this stuff.

Its a moot point regardless.

Have you watched Rose play? You are nuts saying he is shoot first PG. He has been forced into that role because we have no one that can make a shot. Matter of fact, he was TOLD to shoot because of how bad they were playing. They are now playing much better and things have opened up for everyone.

If they got just one of the two you guys are talking about, they are a top 3 team next year in the eastern conference, but if they got both, they would chew up teams, just based on their toughness.

Cannon Shell · #9 02-13-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

First of all, I still have to understand how should Chicago could get it done and New York can't capwise unless some serious trades are made. I posted the links earlier.

Accoring to your links if the bulls can dump KH and TT for expiring contracts they will be on the hook for $22 million next year. While a lot has to happen it is not that far out of the realm of possibility that these trades can happen. It leaves you with approx $47 mill in space. But you have an allstar PG, a pretty good SF, a top 5 rebounder, a solid 6th man and Taj Gibson who has played really well.

The Knicks have almost no chance of getting below $27 million and have a Euro perimeter player, a fair SF, a really raw rookie PF, a useless PF and a tub of **** coming back next year.

dalakhani · #10 02-13-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Accoring to your links if the bulls can dump KH and TT for expiring contracts they will be on the hook for $22 million next year. While a lot has to happen it is not that far out of the realm of possibility that these trades can happen. It leaves you with approx $47 mill in space. But you have an allstar PG, a pretty good SF, a top 5 rebounder, a solid 6th man and Taj Gibson who has played really well.

The Knicks have almost no chance of getting below $27 million and have a Euro perimeter player, a fair SF, a really raw rookie PF, a useless PF and a tub of **** coming back next year.

The Knicks could get below that number easily. Package one of their expiring contracts (tub of **** or jefferies) with a draft pick (certainly going to be high) and voila! On top of that, you will have room to spare.

Lots of benefits to playing in NY and plus the following year they will have even more room.

The pieces are complimentary and there is room to add more the following year. It could work easier for NY than chicago.

horseofcourse · #11 02-13-2010, 09:13 PM

why are you so emotional about this stuff dala??

Cannon Shell · #12 02-14-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The Knicks could get below that number easily. Package one of their expiring contracts (tub of **** or jefferies) with a draft pick (certainly going to be high) and voila! On top of that, you will have room to spare.

Lots of benefits to playing in NY and plus the following year they will have even more room.

The pieces are complimentary and there is room to add more the following year. It could work easier for NY than chicago.

Funny Walsh is saying it will be near impossible to do.
The Knicks dont have their pick this year (Utah owns the non protected rights) and if they get LeBron their future picks wont be very appealing.

The benefits of playing in NY are seriously overblown. I say that as a Knick fan who hasnt seen any good players choose to sign with the Knicks in 20 years.

Anyone who think the Knicks players signed for 2010-2011 are better than Chicago's should immediately check themselves into the hospital and have them do extensive testing for dementia

dalakhani · #13 07-08-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Argumentative? it is hard to understand your logic. Like Derrick Rose wouldn't alter his game if he had Dwayne Wade in the backcourt with him? That Wade wouldnt want to play with a top 5 (and getting better) PG? That there would be a chemistry problem with the players ? Salmons can certainly shoot the three as evidenced by his 41% last year and Deng doesnt take a lot of them but is also over 40% this year, they would have two of the NBA's best rebounders (Noah and Bosh) as well.

A blank slate doesnt means that you can get the right pieces around them. Currently Miami has a slightly below average PG and an enigma signed through next year. The idea that they can fill out the roster with players that would be of the quality of Chicagos with the limited money they would have is a longshot. And that is if you believe you can be a championship calibur team with Mario Chalmers at the point and Micheal Beasley playing 35 minutes at whatever position that it is that he plays.

And?

dalakhani · #14 07-08-2010, 12:59 PM

Chuck, its okay to be wrong. Its okay if someone else is right. You don't have to constantly make excuses. This "diverting" is not becoming of you. It is small and you are a big guy.

Cannon Shell · #15 07-08-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Chuck, its okay to be wrong. Its okay if someone else is right. You don't have to constantly make excuses. This "diverting" is not becoming of you. It is small and you are a big guy.

LOL

Diverting? Please show me where I said Wade and Bosh were going to Chicago?

Oh you can't because I didn't.

I mean this is ridiculous on your behalf. There are 170 or so posts and you cant post one where I said that I thought they would go to Chicago. When I posted two where I said i didn't think it would happen you conveniently ignore them and then post where I point out the truth (that Chicago's current roster is stronger than Miami's-which is still true) you actually believe that this "proves" your point?

Yeah you were right in Feb saying that Wade and Bosh were going to Miami which was pretty much what everyone else was saying at that point. That doesnt make me wrong because again I didn't say where I THOUGHT they would go, just the possibility that Chicago could become an option. Which by the way it did. In case you forget or simply overlooked it I didn't take your terribly one sided bet back in Feb.

dalakhani · #16 07-08-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Wade wouldnt want to play with Derrick Rose? Yeah sure he wouldn't...

So Wade, Rose, Deng, Bosh and Noah wouldnt be a tough line up with Gibson and Slamons and the mid level exception player off the bench? You like Wade, Chalmers, Beasley, Bosh and player to be named later better?

I guess Wade and Bosh liked my scenario a little better than yours. No?