Political Climate

[Danzig]

he's not very liberal. it's why some of his fellow democrats are very unhappy with him. he's too liberal for any real conservative, but anyone who isn't to the right is 'too liberal' for them. if he was very liberal, then he would have already done away with don't ask, don't tell. he wouldnt' be asking for a spending freeze in most depts, while leaving defense alone.
this is why i shake my head when people start tossing out labels. generally, they are incorrect. just because obama is a democrat, doesn't mean he's liberal. the two don't necessarily go together. many credit clinton with the successes he had because he ruled from the center, which is where most people reside.
another example-the south generally has dems in local offices and congress-yet they generally vote republican in the national elections. kerry didn't win down here, and certainly neither did obama. folks here are pro-union (democrats lean that way) but they are for gun rights, and are generally anti-abortion and are religious. certainly aren't your 'typical' democrats. a democrat in massachusetts doesn't resemble one from california, and neither resemble one from here. it's why the two parties have such difficulty appealing to everyone-their agendas don't match everyone everywhere. yet they always expect their dems or reps to strictly vote party line-which engenders distrust and voting the opposite party in when they get angry-such as in mass. truly, independents rule these days-they aren't beholden to either party and don't vote just because 'well, i'm a dem, and he/she's a dem, so there's my vote'. i've voted for more democrats over the years than republicans, yet those on the left (such as scuds) accuse me of being a rep, while those on the far right say i'm too liberal. 'they' both get angry because i'm not on either ones side.-but don't realize that's true for many.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he's not very liberal. it's why some of his fellow democrats are very unhappy with him. he's too liberal for any real conservative, but anyone who isn't to the right is 'too liberal' for them. if he was very liberal, then he would have already done away with don't ask, don't tell. he wouldnt' be asking for a spending freeze in most depts, while leaving defense alone.
this is why i shake my head when people start tossing out labels. generally, they are incorrect. just because obama is a democrat, doesn't mean he's liberal. the two don't necessarily go together. many credit clinton with the successes he had because he ruled from the center, which is where most people reside.
another example-the south generally has dems in local offices and congress-yet they generally vote republican in the national elections. kerry didn't win down here, and certainly neither did obama. folks here are pro-union (democrats lean that way) but they are for gun rights, and are generally anti-abortion and are religious. certainly aren't your 'typical' democrats. a democrat in massachusetts doesn't resemble one from california, and neither resemble one from here. it's why the two parties have such difficulty appealing to everyone-their agendas don't match everyone everywhere. yet they always expect their dems or reps to strictly vote party line-which engenders distrust and voting the opposite party in when they get angry-such as in mass. truly, independents rule these days-they aren't beholden to either party and don't vote just because 'well, i'm a dem, and he/she's a dem, so there's my vote'. i've voted for more democrats over the years than republicans, yet those on the left (such as scuds) accuse me of being a rep, while those on the far right say i'm too liberal. 'they' both get angry because i'm not on either ones side.-but don't realize that's true for many.

Obama is a liberal. The idea that he isnt a liberal or acting as a "real" liberal is promoted because the far left is stomping thier feet. But he is a politician before he is a liberal and even he realizes that a lot of stuff that the radicals want simply will kill his reelection (not that what he has done isnt already doing it) chances. Not to mention that despite the coronation he is not a King and cant just wave his magic wand and make things happen or go away. The beauty of our system of government is the checks and balances that dont allow one man agenda's to be imposed. But seriously he is pro union, pro taxes, pro climate change, pro healthcare reform, anti business, pro abortion, pro gay rights, pro big govt, antiwar(despite his actions on the wars which he correctly knows he has to do), pro ACLU...I mean what anti liberal stance has he ever taken outside of the troop surge that he tried to appease liberals by announcing the date of the withdrawl before retracting it. As far as the economic stuff he is clueless about what to do and obviously just goes along with what his guys want.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Obama is a liberal. The idea that he isnt a liberal or acting as a "real" liberal is promoted because the far left is stomping thier feet. But he is a politician before he is a liberal and even he realizes that a lot of stuff that the radicals want simply will kill his reelection (not that what he has done isnt already doing it) chances. Not to mention that despite the coronation he is not a King and cant just wave his magic wand and make things happen or go away. The beauty of our system of government is the checks and balances that dont allow one man agenda's to be imposed. But seriously he is pro union, pro taxes, pro climate change, pro healthcare reform, anti business, pro abortion, pro gay rights, pro big govt, antiwar(despite his actions on the wars which he correctly knows he has to do), pro ACLU...I mean what anti liberal stance has he ever taken outside of the troop surge that he tried to appease liberals by announcing the date of the withdrawl before retracting it. As far as the economic stuff he is clueless about what to do and obviously just goes along with what his guys want.

Other than the last sentence, which I'll just pass on, I really can't disagree with what you wrote. The point of contention with Liberals is that he hasn't put the focus on the social liberal issues as much as "we" would like. That is understandable based on what this country was like when he took office, and seriously not a Bush blame here at all...sh*t happens...but, if he has to move to the Center, or even to the right to get things done, I much prefer it be over economic topics than social ones.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Other than the last sentence, which I'll just pass on, I really can't disagree with what you wrote. The point of contention with Liberals is that he hasn't put the focus on the social liberal issues as much as "we" would like. That is understandable based on what this country was like when he took office, and seriously not a Bush blame here at all...sh*t happens...but, if he has to move to the Center, or even to the right to get things done, I much prefer it be over economic topics than social ones.

amen!! I just really dont understand why the "right" can't be pro gay rights either?? Makes no sense to me.

I would love conservative fiscal and economic policies and liberal social policies... Only way that happens is if we get a libertarian in office.

edit: by the way, when you coming to Ocala??

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

amen!! I just really dont understand why the "right" can't be pro gay rights either?? Makes no sense to me.

I would love conservative fiscal and economic policies and liberal social policies... Only way that happens is if we get a libertarian in office.

edit: by the way, when you coming to Ocala??

because of the religious issue with the far right neo-cons. remember, sarah palin thinks you can pray gay away....
but i'd rather they just minded their own business, and stick to 'all are created equal'. it would be soooo much easier that way!

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because of the religious issue with the far right neo-cons. remember, sarah palin thinks you can pray gay away....
but i'd rather they just minded their own business, and stick to 'all are created equal'. it would be soooo much easier that way!

yeah, I should be able to marry my dog and claim our puppies on my taxes


come on who are you to judge

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

yeah, I should be able to marry my dog and claim our puppies on my taxes


come on who are you to judge

this is unbelievable. WTF does that have to do with gay rights?

You compare me, Honu, BWS, DerbyCat, etc. marrying our partners to you marrying your dog and claiming puppies?

Unbelievably ignorant and incredibly pathetic. And the "religious right" wonders why nobody except them takes them seriously.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

yeah, I should be able to marry my dog and claim our puppies on my taxes


come on who are you to judge

i didn't realize i was judging in saying that everyone should worry about themselves.

also didn't realize that dogs were humans able to give consent. or that they were citizens covered by the u.s. constitution. you know, the one that says we're all created equal??

many countries now allow gay marriage. but we're the land of the free???

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

yeah, I should be able to marry my dog and claim our puppies on my taxes

Just go away.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

yeah, I should be able to marry my dog and claim our puppies on my taxes


come on who are you to judge

I agree. What goes on between you and your dog is your business.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Other than the last sentence, which I'll just pass on, I really can't disagree with what you wrote. The point of contention with Liberals is that he hasn't put the focus on the social liberal issues as much as "we" would like. That is understandable based on what this country was like when he took office, and seriously not a Bush blame here at all...sh*t happens...but, if he has to move to the Center, or even to the right to get things done, I much prefer it be over economic topics than social ones.

i agree 100%!!
back when don't ask, don't tell was mentioned-since he said he wanted rid of it-obama said 'we need to focus on the economy, etc, etc'. all last fall, the exec and ledge were solely focused on health care, not just the economy. so, the suggestion that he couldn't have more than one iron in the fire at a time was bogus. it was an excuse by him not to do what he said he wanted to do. and it was most likely because he was already making some unhappy with his agenda, and didn't want to make more folks angry at him. but, he also said he would rather be a good one termer, than a mediocare two-termer...so i can't help but think he's not really being sincere on that score either.
but at least he did get rid of bushes stem cell ban.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree 100%!!
back when don't ask, don't tell was mentioned-since he said he wanted rid of it-obama said 'we need to focus on the economy, etc, etc'. all last fall, the exec and ledge were solely focused on health care, not just the economy. so, the suggestion that he couldn't have more than one iron in the fire at a time was bogus. it was an excuse by him not to do what he said he wanted to do. and it was most likely because he was already making some unhappy with his agenda, and didn't want to make more folks angry at him. but, he also said he would rather be a good one termer, than a mediocare two-termer...so i can't help but think he's not really being sincere on that score either.
but at least he did get rid of bushes stem cell ban.

Strictly a guess but i would think that he hasn't taken a more liberal stance (or done anything in some cases) on some issues especially the dont ask, dont tell issue is that the polling shows that it wont be well received and may hurt his numbers.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Strictly a guess but i would think that he hasn't taken a more liberal stance (or done anything in some cases) on some issues especially the dont ask, dont tell issue is that the polling shows that it wont be well received and may hurt his numbers.

i think so too. he's too hamstrung by his party worrying about elections. they don't want to run off right of center independants.

damn shame, everyone more worried about party than doing the right thing in many cases.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think so too. he's too hamstrung by his party worrying about elections. they don't want to run off right of center independants.

damn shame, everyone more worried about party than doing the right thing in many cases.

In his case hardly a shame for the most part

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Obama is a liberal. The idea that he isnt a liberal or acting as a "real" liberal is promoted because the far left is stomping thier feet. But he is a politician before he is a liberal and even he realizes that a lot of stuff that the radicals want simply will kill his reelection (not that what he has done isnt already doing it) chances. Not to mention that despite the coronation he is not a King and cant just wave his magic wand and make things happen or go away. The beauty of our system of government is the checks and balances that dont allow one man agenda's to be imposed. But seriously he is pro union, pro taxes, pro climate change, pro healthcare reform, anti business, pro abortion, pro gay rights, pro big govt, antiwar(despite his actions on the wars which he correctly knows he has to do), pro ACLU...I mean what anti liberal stance has he ever taken outside of the troop surge that he tried to appease liberals by announcing the date of the withdrawl before retracting it. As far as the economic stuff he is clueless about what to do and obviously just goes along with what his guys want.

the issue, i thought, was whether he was 'very' liberal. at this point i would say no. like i said, clinton recognized the center, as a moderate dem, was the place to be. i'd think obama has seen the same writing on the wall. is he a liberal? sure.

[johnny pinwheel]

'they' both get angry because i'm not on either ones side.-but don't realize that's true for many.[/quote]
me either, but thats why the liberals and conservatives are both morons. if you disagree with either they accuse you of being the other. its about as stupid as it gets , but most people are stupid so it works politically. the words liberal and conservative mean whatever each side wants them to mean at the time. was it conservative to take over iraq(nation build while we are broke) and blow a couple trillion, somehow they say it is. what about that medicare drug program boondoggle, a "conservative" trillion dollar give away to pharma....yup, real conservative. the patriot act going against the constitution and spying on folks...yup, real conservative again! dick cheney, "deficits don't matter" yeah , hes a real conservative....lol. see they are only claiming to be a conservative...once voted in its anything but. same for the other side. obama will do whatever hes got to do to make his interests happy. theres no loyalty to the people that voted for him. people still have not figured this out on either side. THEY USE YOU IDIOTS THAT CLAIM TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER TO GET ELECTED. after that anything goes. they are too busy listening to glen beck and rachel maddow to figure out that the american people take it up the ass every time and it does not matter whose in there! my question to all you "liberal" and "conservative" morons is: WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GEORGE BUSH, OBAMA AND MCAIN...........ANSWER......NOTHING BECAUSE THEY ARE RUN BY POWERFUL ENTITIES THAT DICTATE POLICY. thats why the country is being run like bush never left. the same would of happened with mccain. if you believe any thing else you are part of the corruption! see, most people can't or are too lazy to think for themselves. so instead of basing an idea on good or bad..its liberal or conservative. they will never understand the strategy of divide and conquer. they are too busy screaming over each other to care.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

"....WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GEORGE BUSH, OBAMA AND MCAIN...........ANSWER......NOTHING..."

Yea, I've noticed the Conservatives treat Obama about the same as they did Bush. Your statement is an example of undeniable brilliance. I especially remember Bush recommending pretty much the same Health care reform plan.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea, I've noticed the Conservatives treat Obama about the same as they did Bush. Your statement is an example of undeniable brilliance. I especially remember Bush recommending pretty much the same Health care reform plan.

thanks for the brillance remark...but its just so painfully obvious if you are not caught up in the partisan, liberal, conservative crap. the same old fights, same old spending, same old BS. we are at the point where the politicians don't even matter...they are either puppets or run over by the rest of the crooks.....change you can count on.....don't hold your breath, thats for sure. they could put a scarecrow in there it would not matter. now the corporations, unions and special interests are deemed people so they can buy elections. it was supposed to be a "conservative decision by the court". i still have not figured out how this is conservative seeing that it pisses all over individual democracy and the constitution. now these guys will really have to grovel even worse or they will be destroyed and replaced by a new "suit"....it just keeps gettting worse for the general public.

[Riot]

Tea Party Candidate Now Comes In Last On Three-Way Generic Ballot
Tuesday, February 09, 2010

For Republicans, the good news is that the Tea Party challenge is a little less scary for now. The bad news is that Democrats are still ahead in a three-way Generic Ballot test.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters finds that in a three-way congressional contest with a Tea Party candidate on the ballot, the Democrat earns 36% support. The GOP candidate comes in second with 25% of the vote, while the Tea Party candidate picks up 17%. Twenty-three percent (23%) are undecided.

In early December, the Tea Party candidate came in second with 23% of the vote, while the Republican finished in third with 18%. The Democratic candidate attracted 36% of the vote in that contest, too.

Unchanged between the two surveys is the 41% of voters who have a favorable opinion of the Tea Party movement. But now 28% view the movement unfavorably, up six points from December. Thirty-one percent (31%) are not sure what they think of the movement.

The survey was taken Sunday and Monday night following the Tea Party movement’s first national convention in Nashville. Former Alaska Governor and GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin was the keynote speaker and told the group, "This is the future of our country. The Tea Party movement is the future of politics."

Shifts in voting by Republicans and voters not affiliated with either party are key to the Tea Party’s new third-place showing. In December, 39% of GOP voters went for their party’s candidate, but 33% opted for the Tea Party. Now, 48% of Republicans are sticking with the GOP, and just 23% favor the Tea Party candidate.

Among unaffiliateds [ also known as "independents" ], 33% supported the Tea Party congressional candidate in December. Now, only 23% are voting that way. Interestingly, however, most of that shift seems to go into the undecided category rather than into support for the Republican.

The Tea Party candidate continues to earn just single-digit support from Democratic voters.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Among unaffiliateds [ also known as "independents" ], 33% supported the Tea Party congressional candidate in December. Now, only 23% are voting that way. Interestingly, however, most of that shift seems to go into the undecided category rather than into support for the Republican..

This is VERY GOOD news IMO as independents are now 2-1 against Obama and the crap he is pushing


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal..._hits_lowe.php