Lets hope Halladay is a playoff stud like Lee

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Yeah, but if gets hurt or stinks they would be screwed. Also if they were for some reason out of the playoff race (which is most unlikely) then they would be the team getting leveraged. If they were in it, they would simply keep him.
All that being said, with the team that they have I would have kept Lee and went for it. They are built to win now, I'll worry about the future/prospects 2 years from now.

You mean as opposed to if that happens with Halladay!!! Halladay gets hit by a bus tomorrow and is in a wheelchair the rest of his life and they are out $60 million plus the buyout for the option. That happens to Cliff Lee and they are out $9 million. You can't justify certain moves on the worst case scenario while ignoring the worst case scenario for other moves.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You mean as opposed to if that happens with Halladay!!! Halladay gets hit by a bus tomorrow and is in a wheelchair the rest of his life and they are out $60 million plus the buyout for the option. That happens to Cliff Lee and they are out $9 million. You can't justify certain moves on the worst case scenario while ignoring the worst case scenario for other moves.

I was responding soley to the point Aunty made about waiting to the deadline thinking that they would have gotten more for Lee if they traded him then. Also I mentioned that for some reason they stunk they probably would have gotten less for him also, so it wasn't only a look at the worst case scenario.
Personally like I stated I would have rolled the dice and tried to keep them both for this season. Possibly making it back/winning the World Series would offset losing Lee for nothing. They should have went for it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I was responding soley to the point Aunty made about waiting to the deadline thinking that they would have gotten more for Lee if they traded him then. Also I mentioned that for some reason they stunk they probably would have gotten less for him also, so it wasn't only a look at the worst case scenario.
Personally like I stated I would have rolled the dice and tried to keep them both for this season. Possibly making it back/winning the World Series would offset losing Lee for nothing. They should have went for it.

The main problem is I think the $6 million the Phillies got for Lee is worth far more than the 3 prospects they got from Seattle. If they got Ackley or Saunders it would have been one thing but the three guys they got are not even remotely close to the top 50 prospects in the nation. You don't give up Cliff Lee for that to save $9 million and get another $6 million in cash. That is just a kick in the balls to your season ticket holders. They didn't refuel their minor league system, all they did was put $15 million into their pockets in exchange for giving up World Series favoritism.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The main problem is I think the $6 million the Phillies got for Lee is worth far more than the 3 prospects they got from Seattle. If they got Ackley or Saunders it would have been one thing but the three guys they got are not even remotely close to the top 50 prospects in the nation. You don't give up Cliff Lee for that to save $9 million and get another $6 million in cash. That is just a kick in the balls to your season ticket holders. They didn't refuel their minor league system, all they did was put $15 million into their pockets in exchange for giving up World Series favoritism.

People forget that Halladay can pitch on 3 days rest (go 3 of 7 in a 7 game series) and we have upgraded our 3rd base.

We HAVE to be the favorites to get back to the series, and we are better off now with Halladay.

& the Phils have said all along that they dont want their salary to be above 140mil. They stuck to it. I really cant be upset with this move or this team after the past two years.

As much as I wish they would have kept Lee for one more year.. they did the right thing in getting Halladay.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

People forget that Halladay can pitch on 3 days rest (go 3 of 7 in a 7 game series) and we have upgraded our 3rd base.

We HAVE to be the favorites to get back to the series, and we are better off now with Halladay.

Two question marks, back end of the rotation and Brad Lidge. The Phills are a very talented team, but are they going to have to depend on the two headed monster of Martinez/Moyer to give them clutch innings down the stretch? Also which Brett Myers will show up or will he be back in the pen? Then there is Hamels.......Finally, who will be closing games for them come September? If he is anything like he was in his first season then you should feel pretty confident. If he's like the guy from last year, then you might encounter some real problems.
I think they are a very talented team, but I'm really not sure you can state that they are better right now, then teams that won and went to the series the last 2 seasons.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Two question marks, back end of the rotation and Brad Lidge. The Phills are a very talented team, but are they going to have to depend on the two headed monster of Martinez/Moyer to give them clutch innings down the stretch? Also which Brett Myers will show up or will he be back in the pen? Then there is Hamels.......Finally, who will be closing games for them come September? If he is anything like he was in his first season then you should feel pretty confident. If he's like the guy from last year, then you might encounter some real problems.
I think they are a very talented team, but I'm really not sure you can state that they are better right now, then teams that won and went to the series the last 2 seasons.

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee. Other than that we are exactly the same.. except our bench is a lot BETTER than last year. (our bench went something like 1/32 in the whole post season last year.. not good)

I expect Happ to be freaking awesome again this year.. (glad they traded Drebeck and not Happ)

the 5th starter and some bullpen guys need to be figured out.

I really wouldnt be surprised to see them make another mid season trade for another starter like they've done the past two years.

Lidge sucked last year and we still ran away with the Pennant. He cant possibly be any worse. And if he sucks just as bad and Manuel puts him in as closer in the Post Season AGAIn than Manuel should be fired.

Hamels also cant possibly be any worse than last year. Amaro is really basing this trade around Hamels being 2008 Hamels. I'm not confident but am hopefull.

Myers is not on this team anymore.

Look to see them pick up a Smoltz type guy and another bullpen pitcher who can close if needed.

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee. Other than that we are exactly the same.. except our bench is a lot BETTER than last year. (our bench went something like 1/32 in the whole post season last year.. not good)

I expect Happ to be freaking awesome again this year.. (glad they traded Drebeck and not Happ)

the 5th starter and some bullpen guys need to be figured out.

I really wouldnt be surprised to see them make another mid season trade for another starter like they've done the past two years.

Lidge sucked last year and we still ran away with the Pennant. He cant possibly be any worse. And if he sucks just as bad and Manuel puts him in as closer in the Post Season AGAIn than Manuel should be fired.

Hamels also cant possibly be any worse than last year. Amaro is really basing this trade around Hamels being 2008 Hamels. I'm not confident but am hopefull.

Myers is not on this team anymore.

Look to see them pick up a Smoltz type guy and another bullpen pitcher who can close if needed.

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

Granted Polonco is an upgrade. Halladay is also an upgrade, but you already had a guy in that spot who was comparable (Halladay is better but Lee was no slouch, either way you had a #1 stud/ace).
I agree with you about Happ, he could turn out to be a good one.
But I just think you are basing the rest on the fact that they came close to winning it again last year, with several of the guys just having awful seasons. So you automatically think that they will be a better team this year because they can't play any worse than they did last season. But what if those guys regress again?
I'm not saying that they aren't a good team, but there are obvious question marks reguarding their pitching that warrents consideration.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

The bolded isnt necessarily true.

Why would you feel the need to sign Park and Durbin? They are easily replacable.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The main problem is I think the $6 million the Phillies got for Lee is worth far more than the 3 prospects they got from Seattle. If they got Ackley or Saunders it would have been one thing but the three guys they got are not even remotely close to the top 50 prospects in the nation. You don't give up Cliff Lee for that to save $9 million and get another $6 million in cash. That is just a kick in the balls to your season ticket holders. They didn't refuel their minor league system, all they did was put $15 million into their pockets in exchange for giving up World Series favoritism.