Jerry Brown's letter to TDN on HOY discussion

[Sightseek]

This is a little blurb from Oppenheim in the TDN (apologies for the strange print, it does that when you copy off a pdf) and I think he fails to realize that most of the people who watch the Breeder's Cup are existing fans of racing - whereas any Triple Crown race (Preakness) is watched by more people who we are trying to reach:

HORSE OF THE YEAR: Interesting comments, and
one thing they really highlight is the question: what are
the criteria for Horse of the Year? Those of us with
votes will be fascinated to refresh our memories when
the NTRA directive on the subject is issued to Eclipse
voters. But here=s a thought--it=s not necessarily about
the fastest horse of the year, or even the horse with
the best form. I=m not for Zenyatta strictly because she
won the GI Breeders= Cup Classic, beating colts and
breaking Personal Ensign=s unbeaten record in the process.
I=m for Zenyatta just as much because, in a sport
that has been threatening to sink without trace from
American public consciousness following Barbaro=s horrible
breakdown in the 2006 GI Preakness, and Eight
Belles=s horrible breakdown after finishing second in the
2008 GI Kentucky Derby, Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not. That=s
why--unless they tell me that=s not a valid criterion--she
gets my vote.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is a little blurb from Oppenheim in the TDN (apologies for the strange print, it does that when you copy off a pdf) and I think he fails to realize that most of the people who watch the Breeder's Cup are existing fans of racing - whereas any Triple Crown race (Preakness) is watched by more people who we are trying to reach:

HORSE OF THE YEAR: Interesting comments, and
one thing they really highlight is the question: what are
the criteria for Horse of the Year? Those of us with
votes will be fascinated to refresh our memories when
the NTRA directive on the subject is issued to Eclipse
voters. But here=s a thought--it=s not necessarily about
the fastest horse of the year, or even the horse with
the best form. I=m not for Zenyatta strictly because she
won the GI Breeders= Cup Classic, beating colts and
breaking Personal Ensign=s unbeaten record in the process.
I=m for Zenyatta just as much because, in a sport
that has been threatening to sink without trace from
American public consciousness following Barbaro=s horrible
breakdown in the 2006 GI Preakness, and Eight
Belles=s horrible breakdown after finishing second in the
2008 GI Kentucky Derby, Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not. That=s
why--unless they tell me that=s not a valid criterion--she
gets my vote.

One should also note, that Smarty Jones probably had more effect on racing than any horse, and Horse of the Year ultimately went to the very best horse...

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

One should also note, that Smarty Jones probably had more effect on racing than any horse, and Horse of the Year ultimately went to the very best horse...

The best horse who ran a total of four times:

Tom Fool
Iselin
Woodward
Breeders Cup Classic

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Revidere

The best horse who ran a total of four times:

Tom Fool
Iselin
Woodward
Breeders Cup Classic

I really hope you're not comparing those four races to the snooze-fest leading up to the Classic that Zenyatta ran this year...

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I really hope you're not comparing those four races to the snooze-fest leading up to the Classic that Zenyatta ran this year...

Nope. It just proved that the Triple Crown races are not the barometer that the writers used.

Ask horses like Silver Charm and Afleet Alex what their exciting Triple Crown campaigns meant to HOY voters.

Sorry those races were snooze-fests for you. What was the Mother Goose?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Nope. It just proved that the Triple Crown races are not the barometer that the writers used.

Ask horses like Silver Charm and Afleet Alex what their exciting Triple Crown campaigns meant to HOY voters.

Sorry those races were snooze-fests for you. What was the Mother Goose?

The way a HOY should win when beating a snoozefest field is what the Mother Goose was.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Nope. It just proved that the Triple Crown races are not the barometer that the writers used.

Ask horses like Silver Charm and Afleet Alex what their exciting Triple Crown campaigns meant to HOY voters.

Sorry those races were snooze-fests for you. What was the Mother Goose?

It's not everyday you see a horse equal a track record in a handride...

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

It's not everyday you see a horse equal a track record in a handride...

Or maidens go 108.3. I have your Sightseek photo. Will PM you.

[pba1817]

This argument is ridiculous...

[Stickhorse]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is a little blurb from Oppenheim in the TDN (apologies for the strange print, it does that when you copy off a pdf) and I think he fails to realize that most of the people who watch the Breeder's Cup are existing fans of racing - whereas any Triple Crown race (Preakness) is watched by more people who we are trying to reach:

HORSE OF THE YEAR: Interesting comments, and
one thing they really highlight is the question: what are
the criteria for Horse of the Year? Those of us with
votes will be fascinated to refresh our memories when
the NTRA directive on the subject is issued to Eclipse
voters. But here=s a thought--it=s not necessarily about
the fastest horse of the year, or even the horse with
the best form. I=m not for Zenyatta strictly because she
won the GI Breeders= Cup Classic, beating colts and
breaking Personal Ensign=s unbeaten record in the process.
I=m for Zenyatta just as much because, in a sport
that has been threatening to sink without trace from
American public consciousness following Barbaro=s horrible
breakdown in the 2006 GI Preakness, and Eight
Belles=s horrible breakdown after finishing second in the
2008 GI Kentucky Derby, Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not. That=s
why--unless they tell me that=s not a valid criterion--she
gets my vote.

[gales0678]

Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not.

the problem is that those with mild interest in the sport most likely don't know dirt from pro-ride or know very little about it

when you have the BC 2 years in a row on the pro-ride surface and not 1 dirt horse wins the results mean less , thus Zenyatta's win means less , she is a poly track specialist who ducked coming east this year to run on the dirt and faced no competetion to speak of this year .....simply put it would be a tradegy for horseracing if they give any horse , hoy , for winning only on the poly surface

[brianwspencer]

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Those who believe Zenyatta deserve it make some flimsy case for her winning it based on the actual racing, mentioning Life Is Sweet running behind her a couple times, mentioning the Grade I Breeders' Cup (Turf) Classic, and then move on to things that have nothing to do at all with racetrack accomplishments. Look at how many people were cheering for her at Santa Anita -- you should have heard it! Look at the press she got! She brought tears to my eyes! She's never lost, even including last year, so she is overdue for a HOY! Mike Smith said she only hit third gear! Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! If only they had run once past Labor Day, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Sherriffs threw his hat in the crowd! Didju see that?! Didju see that -- he is so nice and was having so much fun, I cried! Look at how happy I am, it would be a black eye if we didn't give her HOY!

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Those who believe Zenyatta deserve it make some flimsy case for her winning it based on the actual racing, mentioning Life Is Sweet running behind her a couple times, mentioning the Grade I Breeders' Cup (Turf) Classic, and then move on to things that have nothing to do at all with racetrack accomplishments. Look at how many people were cheering for her at Santa Anita -- you should have heard it! Look at the press she got! She brought tears to my eyes! She's never lost, even including last year, so she is overdue for a HOY! Mike Smith said she only hit third gear! Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! If only they had run once past Labor Day, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Sherriffs threw his hat in the crowd! Didju see that?! Didju see that -- he is so nice and was having so much fun, I cried! Look at how happy I am, it would be a black eye if we didn't give her HOY!

Brian tell me a dirt horse that won a Breeders Cup race over the last 2 years on the pro - ride surface. The results from last week do not help her case.
If she ran on the dirt and won some grade 1's , you may have a case , but this pro-ride stuff is 2nd tier and no horse should win any awards without running on the dirt and beating quality horses on the dirt - horse racing is dirt not pro-ride

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by gales0678

Brian tell me a dirt horse that won a Breeders Cup race over the last 2 years on the pro - ride surface. The results from last week do not help her case.
If she ran on the dirt and won some grade 1's , you may have a case , but this pro-ride stuff is 2nd tier and no horse should win any awards without running on the dirt and beating quality horses on the dirt - horse racing is dirt not pro-ride

What are you talking about?

Did you not read my post at all?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

What are you talking about?

Did you not read my post at all?

read it now

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

That's the whole point. Its not just a statistical debate. In the end, it's gonna be a popularity contest (with possible "political" considerations involved, ie who was better for racing). Zenyatta's paddock routine of posing and pawing the ground may even sway voters (thanks Steve Haskin).

Its obvious who racked up the most accomplishments, so why don't people debate who was more popular?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! !

That closes the case for me. And Brian you of all people know humans vote more on emotion than anything else, it's in our nature.

BC was open to Rachel and Jax/Asm chose not to go because of the poly (still shedding Curlin tears) TOUGH. IMO she missed the final exam by choice and gets a zero. Factor a zero into their beyers and TG's and she loses. Besides by giving Zen HOY it forces Jackson into an emotional state where it would be more likely to return next year to avenge a perceived wrong as opposed to doing it for the fans.

[johnjaydog95]

So, why even have the rest of the season (besides the Triple Crown)? Run in the Breeder's Cup, win, HOTY. That'll do a lot for the fans.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

That closes the case for me. And Brian you of all people know humans vote more on emotion than anything else, it's in our nature.

BC was open to Rachel and Jax/Asm chose not to go because of the poly (still shedding Curlin tears) TOUGH. IMO she missed the final exam by choice and gets a zero. Factor a zero into their beyers and TG's and she loses. Besides by giving Zen HOY it forces Jackson into an emotional state where it would be more likely to return next year to avenge a perceived wrong as opposed to doing it for the fans.

I don't understand why the Rachel camp is the only one getting penalized/scrutinized for not going to the BC (and a surface that they did not want to run on). Moss had every opportunity to ship away from California and race. Maybe if he decided to ship, his case for the horse of the year would be a bit better today reguardless if they beat Rachel or not.

[johnjaydog95]

I ran into a couple of posters on a non-racing focused horse sports board who insisted that Zenyatta deserves HOTY because Rachel's races were "cherry-picked" by Jackson/Asmussen to be ones that Rachel "could win."

When I pointed out that there were two things wrong with that argument, they went nutty on me and started talked about how hard the BCC made them cry.