ramon and rajiv - Page 3

NTamm1215 · #41 11-13-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

He actually won the Turf on Better Talk Now in '04. Couldn't agree more with you though.

Yeah, I meant this year. Hell, it was a pair of Dominguez 2nd place finishes in2006 that worked out great for me with Friendly Island and Better Talk Now.

NT

Gauchos0522 · #42 11-14-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Yeah, I meant this year. Hell, it was a pair of Dominguez 2nd place finishes in2006 that worked out great for me with Friendly Island and Better Talk Now.

NT

Ah gotcha, my bad. His 2nd on Bluegrass Cat was good for me as well in the Derby that year.

eajinabi · #43 11-14-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

No,I dont like to confuse quantity of wins is better than quality of wins.

If we compare young jockeys only then Alan Garcia and Leparoux managed to step out of the one-two hit wonders and routinely win graded stakes races month in and month out.

Maybe Dominguez shouldnt be riding 1700 races a year. He has already proven he can win titles so the next logical step is for him to focus on earning quality mounts and secure those big wins to put on his resume. I am sure he will be a force in the later years but right now he is not there.

gales0678 · #44 11-14-2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I am not going to criticize Dominguez's ride on Gio Pionti but a jockey ideally would like to take the shortest route to the finish line and for Domininguez he saw the inside to be wide wide open and he rightfully took it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

For Zenyatta, mike smith, in every race, swings her outside and stays in the outer path all the way. Zenyatta is such a big horse and its hard for anyone to split horses like smith attempted to do so instead he swings farther outside and then she was gone.

i agree with this statement when you are on dirt anywhere in the country , but , not necessiarly the pro ride surfaces in so cal

CSC · #45 11-14-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Not sure he is the best turf rider in the last 20 yrs. That is a hyperbole. I have heard that about every other jockey being touted as one.

Also, Leparoux hasnt even been riding for 5 yrs in the states and yet he has achieved more than Dominguez. At this point, you can argue if Dominguez is better than Russel Baze or not.

The overlay of the day on Fri was a turf route at CD in the 6th yesterday on Coulee with Leparioux riding, only 6 betting choices and Julien at almost 11-1. Leparioux gave the horse a flawless trip. Though I believe Ramon is more efficient with cover in turf races, Leparioux has a knack for getting horses to produce in the stretch. He's been very good this week and anytime you see a price on him I would certainly give him a second look.

Dunbar · #46 11-14-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Who cares about setting win records. Russel Baze does it year after year. Do you consider him one of the better jockeys today???

Just take a look at the Money Earned and Races Won list on the DRF page. Dominguez is third moneywise not because of Graded Stakes but because he racks up Claiming MSW and ALW wins. Gomez, Leparoux, Garcia, Desourmaux
are on the list because they rack up graded stakes. Dominguez is by no means a horrible jockey but he is not a top tier rider yet.

You are so far off on this. Baze is not racing at the top tracks. Dominguez is. So that's a non-comparison.

Dominguez's wins in Claiming races are at least as significant and maybe more significant than big stakes wins, because the claiming structure puts some kind of cap on how good the best horse in the race is. The skill of the jockey becomes relatively more important. The fact that Dominguez has dominated other jockeys at top level tracks in those races says it all, IMO.

DrugS's ROI figs show that Dominguez has been hugely underrated as a factor for years.

--Dunbar

pgiaco · #47 11-14-2009, 10:50 AM

Wow, I'd take Dominguez over any of these other coconuts not named Gomez and possibly Leparoux.

Gander · #48 11-14-2009, 11:13 AM

I'd take Dominguez over anybody but Gomez...
but Gales is half right, that ride on Lemon Cream Pie absolutely sucked yesterday. He should have been on the lead (or at the worst been where Yield Bogey was). That was mind boggling because Ramon usually very adept at pace scenarios.

ArlJim78 · #49 11-14-2009, 08:36 PM

Dominguez had me steaming Thursday. In the sixth he's on Khan Of Khans, looked a sure winner with 50 yards to go. no way that horse should have got nipped. 14-1!

johnny pinwheel · #50 11-16-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

The overlay of the day on Fri was a turf route at CD in the 6th yesterday on Coulee with Leparioux riding, only 6 betting choices and Julien at almost 11-1. Leparioux gave the horse a flawless trip. Though I believe Ramon is more efficient with cover in turf races, Leparioux has a knack for getting horses to produce in the stretch. He's been very good this week and anytime you see a price on him I would certainly give him a second look.

hes always good down there. but, i noticed up here he does not win like that. trying to compare him to ramon and alan garcia makes me laugh because i don't think he will ever win like they do. he reminds me of pat day. cleaning up on the weaker jockey colonies. its funny how he comes in behind rajiv, alan and ramon when they ride the same meet. the whole thread is kind of ridiculous because two of the hottest jocks around are rajiv and ramon. riding is like hitting, sometimes you strike out! you can't fault a guy for some mistakes. the horses are going 40 miles an hour with split second decisions. yet, people come on and put down guys that routinely win 2 to 3 races a day! i want to put some of you on the back of a horse and see how far you get in a race without falling off. ramon only beat him by 17 wins in a 36 day meet at saratoga, yeah , that was real close, give me a break.

gales0678 · #51 11-16-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

hes always good down there. but, i noticed up here he does not win like that. trying to compare him to ramon and alan garcia makes me laugh because i don't think he will ever win like they do. he reminds me of pat day. cleaning up on the weaker jockey colonies. its funny how he comes in behind rajiv, alan and ramon when they ride the same meet. the whole thread is kind of ridiculous because two of the hottest jocks around are rajiv and ramon. riding is like hitting, sometimes you strike out! you can't fault a guy for some mistakes. the horses are going 40 miles an hour with split second decisions. yet, people come on and put down guys that routinely win 2 to 3 races a day! i want to put some of you on the back of a horse and see how far you get in a race without falling off. ramon only beat him by 17 wins in a 36 day meet at saratoga, yeah , that was real close, give me a break.

it's like people bashing the yankees , as a yankee fan i expect it , we over spend evey year on free agents or home grown players , and every year we are the favorite to win the world series. Ramon in NY , in particular at the BIG A is on the best horse a majority of the races, when you win 2 , 3, 4 rides a day but blow a couple of other rides during the week on horses you are supposed to win on you have to expect to be called out on it. It's not like he is blowing races on 45/1 shots that are hopless

CSC · #52 11-16-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

hes always good down there. but, i noticed up here he does not win like that. trying to compare him to ramon and alan garcia makes me laugh because i don't think he will ever win like they do. he reminds me of pat day. cleaning up on the weaker jockey colonies. its funny how he comes in behind rajiv, alan and ramon when they ride the same meet. the whole thread is kind of ridiculous because two of the hottest jocks around are rajiv and ramon. riding is like hitting, sometimes you strike out! you can't fault a guy for some mistakes. the horses are going 40 miles an hour with split second decisions. yet, people come on and put down guys that routinely win 2 to 3 races a day! i want to put some of you on the back of a horse and see how far you get in a race without falling off. ramon only beat him by 17 wins in a 36 day meet at saratoga, yeah , that was real close, give me a break.

On turf, I would put him in there with the best riders in America. He has the right style for poly races also, I think him coming behind Garcia and Ramon has more to do with the quality of rides he gets. There's a strong pecking order at certain meets and unless you are Kent D, Garcia, or Ramon it is hard cashing in consistently on the 3rd best horse in races.

Gander · #53 11-16-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gales0678

it's like people bashing the yankees , as a yankee fan i expect it , we over spend evey year on free agents or home grown players , and every year we are the favorite to win the world series. Ramon in NY , in particular at the BIG A is on the best horse a majority of the races, when you win 2 , 3, 4 rides a day but blow a couple of other rides during the week on horses you are supposed to win on you have to expect to be called out on it. It's not like he is blowing races on 45/1 shots that are hopless

Like any great jockey, Ramon often rides horses that are overbet simply because he is riding them. Case in point yesterday's last race, the favorite American Land. Yes, the horse figured to be one of the possible winners out of about 5 horses that fit the same bill, but 9/5 was a terrible price. He loses with this horse and some people say he lost with a horse that should have won. Thats ridiculous. It was the kind of race where many bettors land on one horse strictly by default for who is riding (Ramon). Take away the riders, and you would have about 5 horses who would/should have been 4/1-6/1 range.

gales0678 · #54 11-22-2009, 08:57 AM

can anyone explain to me what ramon was doing yesterday on national kid?

even durkin had to chime in saying he was being unusually strongly held at the 1/2 mile call (52 and change) , come on ramon let the horse go please , give him a chance to win the race

Gander · #55 11-22-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gales0678

can anyone explain to me what ramon was doing yesterday on national kid?

even durkin had to chime in saying he was being unusually strongly held at the 1/2 mile call (52 and change) , come on ramon let the horse go please , give him a chance to win the race

It was a very puzzling ride to say the least. Reminds me of the ride he gave Lemon Cream Pie 9 days ago.

NTamm1215 · #56 11-22-2009, 10:12 AM

Anyone want to give Ramon a little credit for perfectly assessing the pace situation in the Discovery and getting Haynesfield to relax perfectly while another money-burning Shug McGaughey favorite flopped?

NT

parsixfarms · #57 11-22-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Reminds me of the ride he gave Lemon Cream Pie 9 days ago.

After watching the replay of that race, I can't understand what you wanted Dominguez to do. Lemon Cream Pie was outbroken by a 50-1 frontrunner (to his inside) that looked intent on the lead. And then Yield Bogey make a crazy three-wide move going down the backside. Those two horses finished last and next to last, while Lemon Cream Pie sat a perfect stalking third. He simply was outfinished by deeper closers.

MaTH716 · #58 11-22-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Anyone want to give Ramon a little credit for perfectly assessing the pace situation in the Discovery and getting Haynesfield to relax perfectly while another money-burning Shug McGaughey favorite flopped?

NT

Sorry this is only the thread to second guess and bitch about the 2-3 s.hitty rides he gives a week.

Gander · #59 11-22-2009, 04:16 PM

I think hes a wonderful jockey. Him and Gomez are the best imo. I thought he choked Lemon Cream Pie back a little too much and never really let him go until it was too late, but the winner probably wasnt losing anyways. We'll have to see who rides him next time out.

As far as yesterday's ride on National Kid, I just thought it was strange he was so okay with being that far back and persisted on holding the horse back for so long, but to be honest I had no interest whatsoever in that horse, I bet Jimmy's, who ran a tough beat 2nd.

Rupert Pupkin · #60 11-30-2009, 02:34 AM

I don't know if anyone would have this statistic but I would bet that Ramon rides more repeat winners (back to back on the same horse) than any rider in the country. He is one of the only riders that consistently gears his horses down and tries to save something for their next race. I think Ramon is as smart as any rider in the country.