Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

who were the better older fillies that she has not beaten over two years? This ought to be good.

again, i was referring to this year. last year means nothing regarding the question in the title of this thread. the bcc field was the only decent field she was in the mix with all year.

[Danzig]

just saw that the new york times is offering voting in their poll with a point/counterpoint argument. a nice piece for racing in there for a change!

oh, and rachel is the overwhelming fave with respondents.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just saw that the new york times is offering voting in their poll with a point/counterpoint argument. a nice piece for racing in there for a change!

oh, and rachel is the overwhelming fave with respondents.

It would be interesting if they did the poll like espn and showed how the voting is in different parts of the country.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just saw that the new york times is offering voting in their poll with a point/counterpoint argument. a nice piece for racing in there for a change!

oh, and rachel is the overwhelming fave with respondents.

Thats like asking people in Ohio who they favor, OSU or Michigan...

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just saw that the new york times is offering voting in their poll with a point/counterpoint argument. a nice piece for racing in there for a change!

oh, and rachel is the overwhelming fave with respondents.

East Coast bias, even if they know who the horses are.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

East Coast bias, even if they know who the horses are.

i disagree. people keep lumping rachel into the east coast, conveniently forgetting races at oaklawn, fairgrounds and churchill downs.

[citycat]

In terms of horse racing, "East Coast" bias would include tracks east of the Mississippi. Horses that run at Fairgrounds, CD, Oaklawn and in Florida are considered "east coast" horses

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by citycat

In terms of horse racing, "East Coast" bias would include tracks east of the Mississippi. Horses that run at Fairgrounds, CD, Oaklawn and in Florida are considered "east coast" horses

agree, thats why when it comes to Eclipse voting over the years there have been some very curious results with west coast horses.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

agree, thats why when it comes to Eclipse voting over the years there have been some very curious results with west coast horses.

Agreed. A recent one was the 2004 sprint eclipse where Speightstown won over Pico Central. Pico Central won the vosburgh, carter and Met mile and finished 3rd in the cigar after a long year shipping back and forth. In their lone meeting, Pico Central blew speightstown's doors off in the Vosburgh. Yet, speightstown was named champion sprinter. The rationale at the time? Speightstown showed up on BC day.

[copying]

Originally Posted by citycat

In terms of horse racing, "East Coast" bias would include tracks east of the Mississippi. Horses that run at Fairgrounds, CD, Oaklawn and in Florida are considered "east coast" horses

In the horse racing world, everything east of Wash, Cali, Ariz is considered "East Coasters". Easterners claim MTB (the New Mexico runner), anything from Arlington, KY, etc.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by copying

In the horse racing world, everything east of Wash, Cali, Ariz is considered "East Coasters". Easterners claim MTB (the New Mexico runner), anything from Arlington, KY, etc.

when was the last time a horse from Az or New Mexico won a championship?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by citycat

In terms of horse racing, "East Coast" bias would include tracks east of the Mississippi. Horses that run at Fairgrounds, CD, Oaklawn and in Florida are considered "east coast" horses

ah, not so. when azeri shipped to arlington for the bc, and won HOY, people knocked her for not coming east that year.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i disagree. people keep lumping rachel into the east coast, conveniently forgetting races at oaklawn, fairgrounds and churchill downs.

I was wrong, I should of said " California Haters" is more like it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I was wrong, I should of said " California Haters" is more like it.

i don't think it's a hatred of one state. zenyatta hasn't gotten any more grief than say...pepper's pride, or hallowed dreams. and no, i'm not comparing them talent-wise!! it's more a desire to see horses run in more than one state, to move outside their comfort zone.. it's a completely different style out there, and no dirt surfaces, and is next to impossible to draw comparisons if a horse only runs out there. a horse, such as rachel, who runs well all over the country except cali should get more respect than one who remains only in cali, right? there's a reason rachel didn't run there, and it's the same reason zenyatta only ran there. artificial surfaces. a comparison of the two has to be done only on what they both accomplished for the year, as any other comparisons would be based on opinion and conjecture.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think it's a hatred of one state. zenyatta hasn't gotten any more grief than say...pepper's pride, or hallowed dreams. and no, i'm not comparing them talent-wise!! it's more a desire to see horses run in more than one state, to move outside their comfort zone.. it's a completely different style out there, and no dirt surfaces, and is next to impossible to draw comparisons if a horse only runs out there. a horse, such as rachel, who runs well all over the country except cali should get more respect than one who remains only in cali, right? there's a reason rachel didn't run there, and it's the same reason zenyatta only ran there. artificial surfaces. a comparison of the two has to be done only on what they both accomplished for the year, as any other comparisons would be based on opinion and conjecture.

I love how you sit there and make it sound like California horses never leave the state, when its usually exactly the opposite, they go all the way across country, winning at a pretty good clip on surfaces that are foreign to them, yet you rarely see it in reverse.

If they BC had been at CD she would have been there, the owners support racing, oh maybe you forgot horses like Giacomo and Tiago traveling around the country?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

again, i was referring to this year. last year means nothing regarding the question in the title of this thread. the bcc field was the only decent field she was in the mix with all year.

You do realize she trashed, and I mean trashed, the filly who is going to be second in older mare voting, three separate times?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You do realize she trashed, and I mean trashed, the filly who is going to be second in older mare voting, three separate times?

i assume you mean life is sweet? another horse who had a good bc so suddenly is a top horse for the year....i guess four wins is all it takes, just discount the losses. makes you wonder why any of them run anytime other than late fall.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i assume you mean life is sweet? .i guess four wins is all it takes, just discount the losses.

who did she lose to? Cmon, this is basic handicapping 101

Rail Trip, who is probably as talented a horse in the country

and Zenyatta, as Steve Crist says in his Sunday column "one of the great female horses of all time".

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

who did she lose to? Cmon, this is basic handicapping 101

Rail Trip, who is probably as talented a horse in the country

and Zenyatta, as Steve Crist says in his Sunday column "one of the great female horses of all time".

sure she is. i'm in no way slighting zenyatta when i say that simply put, rachel had the better year. did zenyatta have a good year? absolutely. in many years, i'd have said she'd earned the top honors. but not this year. as good as she was, i just think rachel accomplished more.

as for the life is sweet argument, it seems a circuitous one. zenyatta is good because she beat life is sweet, who is good because she lost to zenyatta? if rachel on the other hand had confined herself to racing in only one state, how would you feel about her chances, her victories?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

who did she lose to? Cmon, this is basic handicapping 101

Rail Trip, who is probably as talented a horse in the country

and Zenyatta, as Steve Crist says in his Sunday column "one of the great female horses of all time".

It would be one thing if she was losing to Zenyatta, and only Zenyatta. The fact remains that she was soundly beaten by Anabaa's Creation and Lethal Heat on the one occasion as well, and then beaten again by Lethal Heat the next time she faced Zenyatta.

It's a totally convenient, but not very logical, argument.

Zenyatta's greatness was not proven by her beating Anabaa's Creation, say her supporters, but by beating Life Is Sweet....who was beaten by Anabaa's Creation? Zenyatta's greatness was not proven by her beating Lethal Heat, but by beating Life Is Sweet.....who was beaten twice by Lethal Heat?

There's an argument to be made for Zenyatta, to be sure, but I'm having a really hard time thinking that her beating Life Is Sweet, when she was running 4th, is the best way to go about it, because that either means Life Is Sweet was not very good in those two tries (agreed), or the Ladies' Classic field was just THAT pathetic that a horse who couldn't even beat Anabaa's Creation and Lethal Heat could run off with it?